Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi friends. Welcome to Charlie.

and Steve, watch stuff,

And today we're watching Batman

the

Animated

series.

My name's.

Steve

Snick, And

joining me

today as always, is

my good friend

Charlie Peppers. Charlie, how you

doing today, man.

man. Doing well, my dude.

Well, we're, we're back in 2024. Going to

continue watching Batman.

the animated series,

and We have a couple

of episodes. That we're gonna jump into shortly, but now

that we're a couple of

weeks into the new

year, Charlie. I.

just wanted to check in with you and, and see how the year is treating you so far.

Is it new year, new you, or are you just kind of feeling business as usual? Tell us about how things are going.

Business as usual. I, I'm pretty happy with how things are going in life right now. A lot of the seeds that I planted for 2024 are going to bear fruit. I'll just leave that where it is. Uh, Love my boyfriend, love hanging with you on this podcast. Love many, many of the things. So let's do this. How [00:01:00] about you? How's your 2024 going?

It's good so far. My birthday's actually on New

Year's Eve,

so I

recently celebrated a birthday, which is always a fun way to ring in a new year. I would always joke that no one ever says no to anything I wanna do on New Year's because

it's my birthday.

This year that manifested in a little bit more of a relaxed way, but I guess that's what happens when we get older and more mature or I guess that's sometimes what happens when we get. Older and maybe more mature. But yeah, so far so good. A lot of this. I also have a couple of new things maybe on the horizon.

Knock on wood, we'll see how it all pans out, but I, I think that's part of a, a new year and looking forward to some opportunities that we want to create for ourselves. And I'm feeling pretty good going into it. I've, It's funny you introduced me to the concept of Yes. And, and how that works in a writer's room. And I actually am thinking about this right now because I did this in therapy earlier today where I am attempting to Yes. And [00:02:00] some of the positive things that I've done for the last year. So I'm take, I'm take

Instead of being like, oh.

I didn't do this enough, or I wish I did this more. I'm trying to take some of the positive things that I did last year, and I'm trying to build upon them by going, okay, yes, I did this and now I'm going to continue doing this, or I want to try and do this.

So I'm feeling very positive on that. So I have you to thank for injecting a little bit of positivity in the concept of Yes and to me and how I'm using that in the start of my

year.

very welcome also, Steve. You deserve that. You deserve that positivity in your life. You're a wonderful person. You kick ass always. And my friend, I am very, very excited to see you shine in this new year.

Oh, back at you baby. Back at you. For sure. Well, let's let's shine on. And talk about some Batman, the animated series coming up today, we have two episodes. It's never too late, and I've got Batman in my basement, [00:03:00] and we're gonna start off today with, it's never too late. It's Never Too late. Was released on September 10th, 1992. The story was by Tom Ruger, teleplay by Garin Wolf, and it was directed. By boy to Kirkland. The episode depicts the climax of a long gang war between rival Gotham City bosses, Arnold Strom well, and Rupert Thorn sensing an opportunity to try and resolve it peacefully. Batman attempts to convince Strom well. To retire. I actually, I wanna park here for just one moment because I don't know if there's a lot of positives we're gonna be saying about these two episodes today. But I did

Wanna highlight one positive

that I liked coming off of this, which was, I liked

that

the episodes

right after,

or this episode,

right after.

the two face episodes directly dealt with Thorn again. I actually really liked that we kept him in the center of our view and it wasn't just like, okay, we're gonna do away with him [00:04:00] for a while. Maybe he will come up later. Like it's actually kind of showing a rise to power for him through the Two-Face story into this. Like, however this story works for you or it doesn't like, I actually liked that there was a little bit of a through line that continued from those last episodes, which are really strong into this episode, has however we felt about it.

What do you think about that?

You know.

You know, hearing you say that makes me appreciate that Thorn did stick around for a little bit longer because in that way the show mirrors the Batman comic Batman your one. And though the cartoon isn't technically Batman's first year of being a vigilante, he is still feeling his way around how he wants to do his job and

Having more street level old school gangsters be a big threat. I think that we've had quite a few, or maybe you know, three or four episodes that don't deal with one of his costumed [00:05:00] villains, and that's to the strength of the show because as the show goes on. Episodes like this don't happen because Batman's villains get a little bit more brazen and they get more, I'm not gonna say ridiculous, they get a little bit more blood thirsty.

And it's that vicious cycle of the more prominence that Batman has, the more prominence that his rogues gallery has. So this feels very much like year one, maybe year two, rogues, gallery, and . . I think that that works to the show's benefit, even though I kind of hate this episode.

I we could just do this here.

I

agree.

with you.

I just feel like any episode,

that we've had so far where it doesn't involve an explicit Batman villain,

even if they

are a

gangster, I just don't feel like Rupert Thorn. does it like anyone else does. So like even that episode back with the Forgotten where we're in that prison with [00:06:00] Nameless Pig face, bad guy, man. Like, we weren't as moved by that than having an actual, villain with a reason to go after Batman. But I, I totally agree with that, Reid, and I like how you can, can equate it to that. So let's just jump right into the episode. Um, The setup

is Pretty clear.

from the onset, Strom wells out. Thorn is in. We've got Commissioner Gordon on the news saying So quick. Riddler Trophy right here. If you go back and look closely enough in this episode, you'll actually see that they misspelled commissioner on the news report. It's they, they miss an s, it's just commissioner. So good job by them and good find by the wiki of the episode. And, and at the same time they're establishing that this guy is kind of on the outs. He's old, he's run down. One of his goons is like, be careful of your heart condition boss, also that his son is missing and that he presumes that it's thorn's doing. And he's, he's like, okay, I'm gonna meet with this guy.

Like, he's obviously coming for my, my throne. I, [00:07:00] I'm sure he has my son. And I'm, I'm gonna fold and I'm gonna meet with with Thor and we're gonna see what this guy wants. Smash cut over to Thorn in his bullies being like, yeah, we're gonna kill this guy. Like, we're just gonna take him out. The second we see him and we get appearance number two right here of homeless Bruce, he's the, he's the

guy that.

gets lifted out of the bar being like, okay buddy, time to go.

You've had one too many. But that's how Bruce knows that this thing is going down. 'cause that's actually Bruce Wayne in disguise as his counterpart. Again, from the forgotten where he was pulled into that prison labor sort of situation. And

We're kind of all getting like a smash meeting coming together where we, the audience know how it's gonna go. Now we have a quick moment and this is the first part that the episode loses me a little bit. And I would love for you to jump in here, Charlie. They kind of insert. This first meeting with Batman and the priest right [00:08:00] here,

We have like the.

Batman's like be there and the priest is like, you think he'll listen to me?

But we don't really get why and we will get to like the resolution that this like maybe like the reveals or the twists that I think this episode was trying

to Hide. But to me this first scene felt so fucking random.

I

just didn't get why

Batman was talking to a priest. Did you like, did you capture

that at all.

It really stuck out to me 'cause it felt torn straight outta daredevil. Daredevil has a lot of Catholic guilt.

I'm not sure if that was intentional or not, but . . That doesn't seem like Batman's character. It doesn't seem like Batman would have a running relationship with the priest because religion's never been a big part of his character. But if the priests were in informant, which would be interesting because priests are supposed to be sworn to secrecy.

But if that were the relationship, I would buy it a little bit more. It felt like [00:09:00] it belonged in another show and like the writers forgot who Batman is for a second.

Well, you know what,

I'm

honestly, I'm just gonna skip to the end and spoil it because a. If you're listening to this, you probably watch the episode and be like, it kind of, it doesn't really matter that we're doing this now. It's like, ' cause the other thing that we're gonna talk about is this little like PTSD flashback that Trowell has on the way to the meeting. And it's him and as a boy walking with this other

boy down the train tracks and they have this like dire moment where it seems like

Strau is

gonna get hit by a train. And at the end of the episode you find out that that

boy is

actually,

the priest.

and

you also find out that the

priest saves him and then

gets hit by the trade and you think

he's dead. But it's actually

he

is okay.

'cause it's the priest now and he's got a one leg. And then after all of that, we,

we finally find out that it's his brother.

brother.

Like

we don't know that it's his brother until literally, like it's the last fact that's shared with us. That part [00:10:00] really gets me.

an ambitious story. I'll give them that, but it doesn't feel like Batman. This episode did not feel like Batman.

One, there was no metaphor. Surrounding a villain that was a mirror reflection of Batman like we had to face last episode. Batman was hardly in it, and even the way that Batman handled it, he was more of a guiding light and a voice of reason for the criminal element that he usually takes down, which in the real world that's great.

But in my cartoon, I want violence. I want Batman up against somebody. That I'm concerned is gonna kill him or not. I wasn't worried about Batman this episode. I wasn't worried about the person that Batman was helping. It just felt very low stakes to me and very random.

There was just basically no effort. Like I would've much rather

that

first scene being like,

but [00:11:00] he's your brother

and establish that.

don't make it.

like it's this random priest, and you're like, And then

make it implied that,

it's also the person in that seat. And then when, when it's all resolved at the end, you have more context for it.

Look at me giving notes for once. Anyway, let's get to the violence.

How about we

get to some violence?

Does that sound good?

about we get to the violence? I think that's a, that's a good idea, Steve.

Let's, let's get to some violence. So we get to the meeting. It's at Pete's good old Pete's the best cannolis in town. That dumb fuck. Harvey Bullock Trowell. So first of all, Thor, we know that Thorn intends to kill Trowell here.

He's like, when Pete leaves, that's your five second Q. Get the F out of there, it's gonna blow. So he gets everyone else to leave except for Trowell by saying, let's talk man. Mono. You know that the way that those masculine men do, thorn's, Immediately getting his shirt rung up in his face, being like, where's my son? Str? I was like, you kidnapped my son And thorn's like, I didn't do [00:12:00] that. And you kinda like believe him right away being like, I wouldn't mess with family. Like I think that animation actually does a good job of being like, whoa, like that this isn't something that I'm doing.

Oh, 100%. I believed him for a second there too.

And then just immediately goes back to blowing him up.

be like I wouldn't mess with your family. But I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill you dead But luckily Batman's there saves his ass. A quick Riddler trophy. This episode contained many references to gangster movies. I feel like gangster plot, gangster movies, easy parallels to make.

This Batman has.

strong well now, and he's essentially, and you call out later that there's some like a ghost of Christmas pass sort of vibes. We'll pull this Ridler trophy in right now. Both a Christmas Carol and it's a Wonderful Life are referenced as direct inspirations for. This section of the episode, sort of like showing the person all their wrongdoings involving these flashbacks to the past and having them resolved to [00:13:00] becoming a better person by the end of it. A little bit of a bumpier path for our guy Trowell than maybe some of the other characters. But we can, we can get into the semantics of that.

very ambitious for a, I think that this was a 22 minute. Episode or 2224 minutes. The fact that they took such a confident swing and tried to do so much, I applaud them, but at the same time, not the platform, like this wasn't the place to do it. And I think that they overestimated how interesting the reveal of him being Strom Well's brother would be to the audience.

You mean not It just wasn't. Anyway, we're having this.

uh, Ghost of Christmas present moment where Batman takes Trowell to the neighborhood where he was originally selling drugs and now manufactures his drugs, his unnamed drugs. I did love him going prove it both times. That was actually really clever. 'cause technically he couldn't and I really liked that. But he drags him inside and [00:14:00] inside one of the recovery rooms in this drug rehab clinic is his son. Yeah, and I would assume his now divorced wife, they reference his marriage falling apart a couple times.

So I, I would say that they're separated and that his life is falling apart in general. And this seems to be the thing that convinces Trowell to Flip and become a snitch and basically like take down his whole drug operation.

Do you have any thoughts on

this? Do you think that this, are you surprised that that's where his son was or do you think it was effective?

Do you think this was just like a hidden nineties PSA for dare? Like what do you, what do you read on this little moment?

it? Definitely reeks of a PSA for dare. That's what it comes across as. You know what? I'll give the episode some credit in saying that Bruce, or more so Batman were, was drawn to helping because it was a father and a son. Maybe he was projecting a bit about [00:15:00] maybe if he was able to help his dad or if his dad was able to fight off the goon that ended up killing his parents in front of him in the back alley.

So I think that Batman had an emotional investment in this just because it was a father and a son and a family that had been broken. That is how I can salvage it in my head, but seeing them reunited really did nothing for me.

It. Yeah.

And you know what really makes it do nothing for you? The fact that he literally flips on Batman quite literally in the next

scene. He is actually just a gigantic piece of shit and doesn't give a shit about his son. 'cause he would rather protect himself in his empire, then do a little bit of good and take down the thing that potentially killed his own blood. But you know what? That's the way he went. And so when they're in this room, Batman

realizes Right away that.

the file that Trowell gives him is a dummy file. Trowell tries [00:16:00] to pull a gun on him and does when it seems like Trowell is gonna shoot Batman. Thorn shows up. Tosses a tear grass grenade through the window. I. And a fight is on, we get a little stealth Batman action. I really, actually, really liked the scene where the two goons were coming in, and he uses the unconscious body of the big one to take out the other guy as kind of like a dummy shield and, and roll through and kick some ass out. We got some redeeming moments in there, but in the, the craziness of the fighting trowell runs away. And oh, oh, look at the narrative convenience. We're suddenly back at the train tracks where all of the PTSD flashbacks were happening, and we get the full flashback. It's Young Strom well with someone named Michael. Again, we don't know who Michael is yet. Technically this train is coming down the tracks.

They're like, we gotta get

outta here,

His foot is

stuck in the tracks

his friend comes along and saves him,

but look, another train is coming in the other direction and his

friend once again,

throws him

off the tracks and seemingly [00:17:00] is killed by the.

train.

But then he comes out of this vision to his friend Michael,

who is the priest,

and he was basically like, why did you save me? You knew I was bad.

You lost a,

you like almost died because

of it. You lost your

leg. And he is like,

good thing I have this wooden

one. And he

knocks on it and it makes a sweet wood sound.

And then we find out it's his brother

It's just so bad. I, it's so funny. I am I'm, I'm training honestly, by the time this comes out, it might be more public knowledge, but

I'm, I'm training to do

a new

fitness oriented job right now,

and

one of the things that I just worked on really hard in my last training session was just the order in

which I say things.

and doing it in the correct order. So everyone knows what they're doing at the right time, and I just

Feel like this is an example of they didn't exactly know in what order to reveal all of the information So everyone felt

aligned with what is happening. And I understand that they're trying to do something [00:18:00] ambitious, and trying to make it like

this twisty, splashy story in 22

minutes, I just was

like, man, the order of events here were

just so outta whack.

Yeah. They actually, the creators of the show, they referenced this as feeling more like a mini movie.

It's one of the directors, Boyd, the guy who directed this episode. It's one of his favorites actually, because

that's fucking nuts to me.

yeah, I think it's because it's a movie he wanted to make outside of the show, and this gave him a chance to kind of make it like a short film, if you will. But it did not belong here. . She doesn't even go here.

Art is so subjective. My God.

Well that apparently is the thing that finally broke the

Strom

whale's back proverbially, and he's now going to

renounce his

criminal ways

and

talk to the DA

and take down.

his reign of

Drug crime. So it wasn't the [00:19:00] imminent death of his son from drug overdose. It was,

and

feeling guilty about almost killing his brother

and his brother, telling him that it was

okay. Great stuff.

I, I guess

we will give one final Riddler trophy on the plot, which is

Rupert

Thorn is now the reigning crime boss.

in Gotham City in

all Episodes moving forward. So the promise to Retire

from

Strong will is a good one.

Let's talk a little bit about just the overarching themes. we,

talked about it being a mini movie a little bit. We also talked about that maybe it falls a little bit flat without a villain that's not as high stakes with Batman or as fleshed out from a character standpoint. Is there anything about kind of like the, the arc of redemption that strong

well goes on here that you wanna comment on before we go into our last little bits of info and our battering for episode one?

You know, I'm, I'm both for and against what this episode tries to do. , I think that they did or they attempted a redemption arc much more successfully [00:20:00] with the Two-Face. Episode of Bruce, having already had an established relationship with Harvey Dent for a number of episodes before coming in Super hot with I wanna help you all isn't lost.

I like seeing Batman's compassionate side because it's what makes this version of him stand out and so, so special and dear to my heart. However, however, I think that his compassion was misplaced in this episode and that he could have been a little bit more discerning with does he trust Bromwell? Like should he have seen him pulling a gun on him before it happened?

Like just him going so above and beyond to get this drug, Lord to stop. maybe this is a bit more of Bruce and his younger years when he had the energy to do this with the crime boss rather than just taking them down. Because [00:21:00] if you really think about it, the type of work that Bruce is doing, he's doing work on this man's soul.

More than just throwing him in AUM or behind bars, because if he's able to just get him to reconnect with his son and stop selling drugs entirely, then he's doing more good than throwing him in prison where he'll get out and come back even stronger. You know, I get the, I like the idea, I hate the execution.

I

think if you.

were placed all

of The

PTSD stuff

with his son, finding himself in that rehab clinic.

Like

if you spent the first five minutes of this episode of not knowing who

his

son was

but watching him

like acquire these drugs, you're obviously not gonna

see

him do the drugs. But then like

having the physical breakdown and ending up in the clinic

and

like Batman kind of paying witness to all of this

and then, you know, that Strom

will [00:22:00] Has some connection and then you find out that, that's his son. I think it might

make

the narrative hit a little bit harder. I just like, they tried to make us care about him in a way that I feel like you could have just

used the son a little bit more

the whole time

and made it more about that

and made him more human that way rather than like give him this traumatic event that seemingly informs

why

he's a criminal.

Although they were laying out pretty clearly.

that

he was gonna be a bad guy, with the fact that he was stealing candy,

and stuff like that. So,

I don't know. This episode was weird.

Let's, let's give our final batter rings unless you wanna add anything else. Is there anything else you wanna add

or should we, should we

rate this shit

and get onto

the next one,

we can rate the shit and move on. No.

Now. So actually I just wanna, before we do this,

do you feel like.

because

we're also sort of lukewarm. I feel like I'm a little less lukewarm on this

next one than you are, but do you feel a certain amount of let down after

because two

face was like top, like the best episodes we've watched so far? [00:23:00] Do you feel like moving forward, if we get episodes that are not as high caliber as them, do you feel like they're gonna hit you a little bit flatter?

because of that?

Yes, 100%. You know. . I give this show a lot of grace because I think some of the clunkers happen earlier rather than later. Season three of Batman is probably my favorite, and I think that I'm in the minority here, but I think that I was at an age when I was a kid. Where I appreciated a little bit more.

And also as a writer, I noticed that they tightened up so much of the pacing and the voice acting and what makes these characters work. Redesign elements aside, I think that the best is yet to come and with episodes that let me down like this, I just know that they are . We're just getting the bad stuff out of the way before we get to masterpiece, after masterpiece, after masterpiece.[00:24:00]

So I'm gonna be disappointed. Yeah. But I, I know it's coming.

I am not mad, just disappointed.

not that, not mad, but disappointed , like the

the parents we are. So on that note, what, what's your battering rating for It's never too late.

I'm giving this half a bat ring.

Half a batter egg.

Damn.

Not even a full,

Woo.

I don't even care enough to throw a full batter ring at them and knock them unconscious. They get a half batter ring.

Wow.

Oh

damn. I thought I was being harsh with my one single battering. But the first folks, you were here for the first half battering ever levied upon an episode of Batman, the animated series. Well, honestly.

I.

I got nothing else for that one. Half a battering from Charlie. One full battering from me. Let's, let's put that one in our rear view and move on to, I've got Batman in my basement.

The episode I've got Batman in my basement was [00:25:00] released on September 30th, 1992. It was written by Sam. Graham and Chris Hubble and directed by Frank Power The plot of this episode is a

young amateur Detective Sherman grant and his best friend Roberta, witnessed the penguin receiving a stolen

Berger egg.

From his thugs. When Batman appears Penguin hits him with a gas pellet that severely weakens him. Now it's up to Sherman and Roberta to protect him. Rid the trophy right off the bat. Bruce, Tim hates This episode, Bruce, Tim, one of our

favorite known writers, directors,

producers, whatever. you

have it is involved very seriously with Batman.

The animated series calls this episode an example of what exactly what we don't want to do with Batman. And also noted that there was a lot of trouble with the storyboard artists noting that they didn't care, and you could tell

and on

on top of that our other Riddler Trophy is that this is unfortunately the first appearance of the Penguin, in Batman, the animated series.

So we have both the

first

appearance of an iconic violin and [00:26:00] an episode that someone who's prominently involved in the show

absolutely.

hates with

all Of

The passion

in their body, but.

at the same time said that this episode

for some reason really resonated with kids, so it's very popular, even though it's one that he specifically doesn't like. What do you think about that?

Well, I don't hate it with all of my heart.

That's, it's not, I

I could,

I could be embellishing maybe a little bit of how seriously he dislikes it.

But it's on the Wiki, it was like, he really doesn't

like

Don't, don't edit that out 'cause it's fucking hilarious. I love in my world, that's how much Bruce, Tim hates this episode. He hates it with

hated it.

hates it, hates it with the heat of a thousand sons. , I don't hate it. I, I don't think I'm gonna rate it as low as I did the last thing that we watched, but what

It's nearly impossible.

nearly impossible

But I do appreciate that they kept design [00:27:00] elements of Danny DeVito's Penguin while incorporating some more of his comic book personality. It comes across a little OneNote. It actually reminds me of Batman 1960 six's version of the Penguin. But at the same time, I just, I find this version of the Penguin interesting because he acts like he's a dandy, but he still just looks really grotesque.

So I find the juxtaposition of those two things to be really just, Hmm. Interesting.

You actually

uncovered another Ridler trophy there. The appearance of the Penguin and Batman, the animated series was actually a directive from the studio to make Penguin look more like his Batman returns. Danny DeVito counterpart,

which had the,

wept fingers

and

the longer

hair versus the.

classic penguin

design Where he's more of like a prim and proper Englishman with shorter hair and I did [00:28:00] also like his characterization in the fact that he could

communicate with other birds. I really liked how,

and we will get into the plot of the episode with the Vultures involvement

and

I did like how how eloquent he was

and how he was like, a,

he almost gave me like fake smart guy vibes like the.

Like that guy from Goodwill Hunting

at the

bar that just, knew how to quote all the books but didn't

actually know Anything real

And then,

and

then, you know, will

got

her number,

How You Like Them apples. And so, so I, I, I actually really liked how he's presented. We'll get to other ways that he's presented because I think they,

Do a really poor job of power leveling.

Penguin in this episode, considering that he gets his absolute ass handed to him by 12 year

olds The entire time. But let, let's get into the episode on that note. The initial heist of the episode is two

criminals are stealing this bright glowing berger

egg, which

we never understand what it's for other than

it just is

worth a lot, I guess.

And Batman seems to have the drop on these two guys.

Usually [00:29:00] if Batman appears and you see him,

It's too late.

But these two guys are saved by.

An entire vulture, a whole ass vulture comes down and, and tears batman up. I mean, and, and maybe you can talk to this Charlie, like

it's

very rare in this series that we see visual damage on Batman. Like it takes,

I feel like it's taken a lot to show actual

damage on his costume

or his,

cape or

whatever.

he walks away. In the first three minutes of this episode

with

rips and tears absolutely everywhere.

foR our listeners, I just want you to, I'm gonna read Steve's notes about this entire part just because I think it's funny and it made me chuckle. Steve, my, my bestie and co-host Steve wrote, Batman seems to have the drop on two criminals stealing a jewel egg, but an entire vulture swoops it [00:30:00] and. Fucks Batman's entire day up

I mean, not, no, not, no. It

isn't that exactly what I just said?

It's exactly, I just, I thought it was really adorable the way that you wrote it. It, it

That's how I cue myself,

made me, it made me chuckle. It made me chuckle.

Oh, thank you for seeing me.

I, I think that just . that vulture swooping in and attacking Batman.

This episode doesn't make Batman look good. It definitely doesn't make the penguin look good. It's just very I think that they were still finding the gravitas of the show and they got lucky that a lot of kids liked this episode because it's called, I've Got Batman in my basement. Doesn't do it for me, but I am a.

Adult. So what do I know? I

I can see the fantasy

fulfillment

for kids

in

this because of

how

How

prominently involved the two kids are

Speaking of which, this, the, the

kids that we're talking about.

Sherman, who's like kind of the main detective [00:31:00] and his friend Roberta, so we have this kid with his detective kit and he spots this vulture and is like, that's a vulture from South America. What is this thing doing

here? Let's follow it 'cause that's what you do. And he ends up at this abandoned factory where the goons are hanging out, waiting for the penguin, we get the reveal of the, the big bad guy is Penguin. of this episode, I actually quick pause here. I was shocked when Penguin,

came on screen the first

time. I just like,

I wasn't expecting an episode titled I've got Batman in my basement

to

Feature Penguin.

as the villain.

I didn't know. I honestly, I thought I was gonna be

a Joker episode

when I saw Penguin show up on screen, I grinned. I smiled so big. I was like, ah, it's the penguin. ,

I mean, I was mad later when I saw the results, but I, I was giddy when I first saw him step on screen.

. Fair enough. Well, we, we,

have . , the reveal of penguin and the fact that the egg is for him and these kids are just not being stealthy and [00:32:00] the vulture is about to get the drop on them. But Batman is there and has the drop on the vulture and wraps it up at a net. And honestly,

It's kind of the kid's fault that Batman.

gets hit with his gas pellet 'cause he's distracted. On Getting

them out of the building. And I think that's kind of what allows Penguin to get that shot off. And Batman gets hit with

this gas and he's, he's

knocked out, he's

absolutely finished. And these kids first feet of absolute superhuman strength. The kids managed to get him in the Batmobile and get in the Batmobile, and he's just like punching buttons wildly to try and get them out of there. And first little Riddler Trophy right here is when he Sherman's punching through buttons.

Some of The weaponry

that's deployed throughout here is like

really uncharacteristically lethal for

someone like Batman who's taking a creed to never kill anybody.

including a bank of missiles.

Mm-Hmm. .

But I, we could also levy that complaint on Christian Bale, 'cause that dude drives a fucking

tank for three [00:33:00] movies. Batman's carrying maybe a little bit too much heat for someone who's supposed to be Nonviolent to the point

of we're not trying to kill anybody,

but

we've,

we've skated that line much more thinly than that before.

in this show.

Oh, absolutely. And Batman returns not the animated series. He definitely blows some people up, but we'll unpack that later.

In Batman, the

Animated

series,

he definitely crushes people under the

force of a weighted beam moving at

no less than 40

miles per hour.

So in broad daylight. In broad daylight,

Were, were there cameras there too?

Holy

shit.

It was in front.

of the mayor. You're right.

Yeah.

Oh my God. Good old Batman.

So Charvin drags our, our good old unconscious friend Batman to his basement because where else would you bring Batman when he's unconscious? And I wanna pause on this right here 'cause I actually think this is a hilarious omission of lore. Sherman mentions to

an

unconscious Batman, sort of apologetically that his[00:34:00]

basement is

nothing like the bat cave. However, there's absolutely no reason for anyone in the general.

public to know that a bat cave exists.

Mm.

what do you Think about that.

I don't hate it. If I were on the writing staff, I would've punched that up by having Batman. When he comes to his senses and wakes up, have him take a look around the basement, kind of scoping it out.

and Sherman apologize. It's like, oh my God, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry. It's not super tidy in here. Feels like a cave. Batman looks at him. That wouldn't be a problem.

See,

that's why you're, that's why you're the writer,

man.

something like

why you're

the writer,

like that. There could be a punch up to that. Punch up, but I think it should have been a back, and it should have been a two-hander or a back and forth instead of Sherman saying, oh, in your back cave, because then it feels a little too meta. And a little too fan servicey.

You know, Sherman didn't feel like a character, and that's one of the examples of him not feeling like [00:35:00] a character.

Well, the kids are down in the basement trying to figure out what's wrong with Batman. And the only two things he's really able to say before he passes out again are two words. He says, capsules, advisor, and they can't

really figure out what that means, and as they're trying to figure out what that means,

we

get these two older kids

who

were established,

earlier in the

episode as sort of like the antagonistic bullies in Sherman's life,

and they throw a brick.

at some Boxes. The mom's gone at this point and reveal that the Batmobile is hiding somewhat inconspicuously under these cardboard boxes, and They're like, whoa, sick whip bro. Like, let's hop in and see what's going on. It doesn't take much effort for Keener Sherman to convince them that this is Batman's car. And as they start to wrap their heads around the fact that Batman's car is in Sherman's driveway, the vulture.

shows up again, which means that the penguin

is not far behind, but before they run away from the Batmobile, they actually find these capsules that Batman [00:36:00] was talking about.

It's some antitoxin hanging out in,

his what do they call those? The the, not the, do they call those visors in cars? What am I talking about? The thing that you flipped down and you have it block The sun

from your face.

What's like the proper term for that?

I think it's a visor.

So the kids forced Batman to take this capsule, but they're also like, penguin's coming. like, we're not gonna be able to keep 'em out. We need to do something. And that's when this episode turns into. Home alone.

Did this, did this come out before home Alone? When did Home

alone. come out

the first home alone. I believe it came out in 1990 and I think Home Alone lost in New York was either 91 or 92.

It was 92.

a home alone element. Yeah. I mean,

I mean, setting up the house with Batman's booby traps to take out

the

hilariously incapable criminals is like

as

home alone as you can get.

So I thought that was a really funny

like, oh, this is just

home.

alone

now. Okay, got it.

But like they used some of the gadgets. The, the

scene of [00:37:00] Roberta and Sherman using the, the

twirling

ball on a rope thing to wrap up. Penguin was like incredibly proficient again for 12

year olds. And so again. We're powering scaling Penguin on the fact that he's

constantly getting duped by 12 year olds, but then all of a sudden he is not. 'cause he cuts out of his rope bindings and

they're Out of tricks and seemingly, when penguin's about to kill Batman, Batman snaps out of his toxin induced stupor and

beats up penguin and

I.

Th

everyone gets thrown in jail there's a hilarious moment where you see in the paper that the vultures now in

the Gotham zoo, which I feel like is so cruel, and unusual for that poor bird. but I

guess it was also trained to be a criminal bird. So

I, I guess you need to

cage it up somehow, but

that's,

that's the whole episode.

honestly,

Like not a ton happens.

And

so there's not that much to discuss. Like penguin shows up knocks Batman out, and then a kid kind of foils his plans. [00:38:00] That's, that's what,

I've got Batman in my

basement is, there is a fun moment at the end where

his mom shows back up and is all pissed that her house is destroyed. But it's actually like, it's 'cause Batman,

was in her basement

and he is like, Hey, Batman, are you single?

for a chance?

That was good.

that was the realest shit that actually improved my battering writing for the episode, because if I were the mom and I just saw this whole ass, man, you know what? Actually I would probably pull my son away because Batman's supposed to be scary. I don't know. If I were a parent and I just saw a grown man dress like a bat, I would be so chill about it.

But . me knowing everything that I know about Batman. If I were to run into Batman, I would not blush and be like, Hey. So what's your Instagram?

I

I mean, underneath all that armor is a pretty burly man.

Oh,

It's gotta be

The Close Friend story

It's got,

it's a

lot of muscles in

there.

is Hidden

The close friend story is probably hitting, oh my God. [00:39:00] just hold on. Let's just take a moment and try and

Envision Batman's close friend story

for just like two seconds.

oh my God. I feel like Batman. He's too rich to be a Jim, bro. He probably is fixing the curtains and like his sunroom just with his whole tidy white's on, it's like it's so hard keeping this house up to par or just him taking selfies at the opera or . I'm sure that Bruce Wayne, just to keep up his public persona, he definitely, he's good at social media.

Bruce Wayne is good at social media and he throws some thirst traps in there. So,

so that's actually, you're getting to,

I think that there's, you're talking about Bruce Wayne's close friends. I'm talking about

bat.

Batmans.

And I know that. Like, see, I know that this is like a practice in, in

Like the, well, I mean we're talking about an animated

cartoon superhero [00:40:00] bat, but like Batman wouldn't necessarily have an internet presence.

But like

if

Batman had a close friends list of like Aquaman and the Justice League, and I always say

Aquaman 'cause I just watched that shitty second movie and

like super band and

He's, he's like, woke up Mad at the world again today.

gonna beat

up some bad guys.

like stuff

like that. I just, I just, I imagine that internet presence, but I also agree that, I'm sure Bruce Wayne's like throwing up the, like the poolside Vegas selfies and like all the thirst traps and what was the

name of the.

girl that, whose date he cancels with

right at the beginning it's like candy or something like that, The, it's

something like that.

bunny.

It was Bunny. Oh my. It was Bambi.

You're right. Oh my.

God.

Any of

of those could have

Yeah, they, they, they feel the same. They feel the same. But I definitely think, or, or if Bruce Wayne has a ig, I don't think he'd show too much body because he wouldn't

Mm-Hmm.

to suspect [00:41:00] that he could be Batman because as soon as you see

Oh yeah.

It's, it's over in more ways than

Because he,

Because he's, well, for you because he's, because he's too jacked to, for a billionaire or because he's gonna literally have battle scars.

Battle scars. Okay.

Okay.

Alright.

All right. Yeah, I see that. Because you could get away with just being like, I'm a billionaire. I got time,

I got body.

Like, what? do you, What do you want?

me to do?

I got time and resources. I, of course, I'm

It also depends on which version of Batman. 'cause like the Robert Pattinson version of Batman, not Jacked, he's athletic, but he's not super jacked. But like if it were more the Ben Affleck version of Batman, that was just yolked, I think people might have not, if not questions, they'd be like, who's your personal trainer?

That's true.

true.

I'd like to with those two Batman specifically, and

can you tell how much we like this, we're just gonna go far off the rails.

with [00:42:00] this discussion.

Those two Batman specifically sat under a lot of armor.

I mean,

bat Fleck

was like, basically,

a walking

tank, but even the Matt Reeves,

Robert

Pattinson, Batman like had to.

armor

up In a way, like he took a lot of, they both take a lot of gunfire

in those movies.

that

this Batman doesn't have that armor

and like he's either avoiding the hits or you're seeing the hits.

If that makes sense.

And I think you also have to be a little bit more physically capable

to do some of the stuff that, that that band does.

So I

think that one, Kevin Conroy jacked out of his brain,

Ben

Affleck still.

uses

the technology, even though he probably has a little bit of

a right

habit. Robert

Pattinson's

fucking

eating

Cheetos on the couch waiting for his suit to do

the work. that's what's happening there,

Oh, absolutely.

Still, still, still banking on his metabolism being fast.

like us,

Anyway, that's enough. Talk about the, the bo

he

he acted like us. Well that's, that's enough talk on the body structures of our different Batmans. Let's, let's get into [00:43:00] this final battering grading

And and take ourselves on home for this episode. you went first on the last one, so I'll go first on this one. I am giving, I've got Batman in my basement, a battering

rating.

of one and a half batter rings. Liked it a little bit more than the episode we watched before, this, but

geez, these were two duds

and that's a bummer.

Oh yeah. I'm gonna give this one battering it's the first appearance of the penguin and I . Appreciate again that he looks grotesque, but he has a lot of the mannerisms of someone in high society that is going to pay off big time in one of the Penguin centric episodes we've got coming up. So I'm excited for you to see that.

Cool. Well at least this one gave us something to look forward to.

Well, that

that is going to do it for this episode of Charlie and Steve

watch stuff. If you haven't

Already give us a follow on Instagram

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Steve. Watch stuff Pod,

We always post[00:44:00]

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Also, give this podcast a rating if you haven't already, whether you're

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you're listening to

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feedback and anything else.

So for myself, Steve Snick and my good friend Charlie

Peppers, we

will look forward to being

with you

in the next episode where we cover,

and I don't wanna get ahead of myself, but I'm just

gonna Go ahead and say the classic Batman, the animated

Series

episode, heart of Ice, along with a little

surprise that we'll be giving to you at the end of the episode. So we'll look forward to see you on the next one. Bye.

friends.