Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi, friends. Welcome to Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff, and today we are watching Batman, the animated series. My name's Steve Snick and joining me as always, he just got done telling me about his shrine to Adam West. It's my good friend Charlie Peppers.

Charlie, how you doing today?

I am doing really well. My shrine to Adam West is doing really well. It's gonna be a great goddamn day.

It's always a good goddamn day when we get to talk about some legends like Kevin Conroy and Adam West, especially when they come together for just vocal deliciousness. I would say that that was just some vocal deliciousness, but that's our second episode. We have two episodes to speak about today in Batman, the animated series, the first of which is See No Evil, the second of which is Beware the Gray Ghost.

And we're going to start today with C. No Evils, no Evil was released on February 24th, 1993. We're in the 90 threes now. Charlie, all of a sudden we're at the fall of 92 and we're directly into [00:01:00] the late winter of 93. So the production order out of order, or I should say the production order is in order.

The release order is out of order, but we still think we're right. Right. Charlie,

We are right. Also, I'm dating myself because I have very vivid memories of 1993.

really?

I very much remember every elementary school teacher's name and at least days or so of like each grade in elementary school. Like I have a pretty good memory with childhood shit.

How so? You're, you're a couple years older than me. Right? So what grade were you in in 93?

I was born in 89, so in 93 I think I was.

You were four.

Yeah, I was.

Is that kindergarten? Is that preschool? Yeah, I remember preschool.

kindergarten,

Oh,

because of where your, 'cause where your birthday falls. 'cause you're December

of 89. So you're [00:02:00] not a few years older than me. You're like a few months older than me.

Yeah, just a few months. Look at you

trying to make me seem older. I, see you bitch.

you're just so wise and so handsome and

Great save. Great save.

know, I've been,

For 34 years, my friend.

yeah, yeah, preschool. I remember I. Running home or not running home, like running to the living room to watch the Batman Animated series. And I remember the first trailer for it being the trailer for Cat in the Claw, which we just covered.

Mm. I wish I could remember things from when I was three. Anyway, let's talk about Batman. Should we talk about, let's talk about

Let's talk about Batman

The, the early plot of the invisible band that comes through here. So as I said, released on February 24th, 1993 before that wonderful tangent about the early nineties and our lack of memory or lack thereof.

The contributors to this episode, it was directed by Dan Reba in written by Martin [00:03:00] Pasco. And the plot of this episode is a small time crook has stolen an invisibility suit, which he has been using to steal jewels, and now plans to steal his young daughter from his ex-wife. And we get introduced to the concept of the invisible man, AKA venous, right at the beginning of the episode where he's invisible in speaking to his daughter.

Charlie, do you know who the voice of his daughter was? This is a Ridler trophy right off the

Yeah, one of my favorite actresses of all time, Peggy Olson from Mad Men, the incredibly, incredibly talented Elizabeth Moss.

I didn't realize this until my second watch through when I was doing it, like with the wiki up and all that stuff, and actually trying to take more notes and put stuff down and I was, I was like, whoa. I was totally shocked by this 'cause I just didn't realize it the first watch through. So what a fun little Easter egg to find

I met her.

I actually have a photo with her that I'll put up in the [00:04:00] story of our IgE just for our listeners.

Yeah.

she's very cool.

Oh, that's good to hear. As we move on from the intro of the Invisible Man, he's just given creepy deadbeat dad vibes, an early nineties classic of just an entertainment classic.

Honestly, there's, as you said in an earlier podcast, Charlie, there's always been deadbeat dads. There are always be deadbeat dads. This is our version of it in this one. Let's talk about a, the most brazen jewelry heist you've ever seen. And B, the most brazen change in to Batman that I've seen so far.

Like my dude just kind of like ducks into a bathroom and then all of a sudden he like bursts out and he's Batman. But before that, we see venous enter this jewelry convention. Bruce Wayne is there looking to buy some fancy jewelry for himself, and he puts on the suit and you see him go invisible. And then he just is like, I don't give a fuck.

I'm gonna just start taking all these jewels. He literally takes the watch straight outta Bruce's hand, and this is what launches Batman into action. Do you have anything you wanna note about just this initials [00:05:00] jewelry, I'm gonna call it a heist scene and just this like ridiculous change that they are just like, okay, he's Batman now.

Just two things to note about this one. This guy has got some balls just going into his invisible suit and snatching the hell out of everything in the room, but you know what? It makes me. Appreciate him even more because if I were invisible, I don't know if I would be trying to be super meticulous about how I pickpocket people.

I would just mine mine, mine, mine. Taking that. Snatching your wig. Have a good day. The second thing I wanna note is how Batman swung that door open and

hit the security guard it was giving. He was like, give my regards to Broadway. Just like smacked the shit out of that guard who was maybe humming or whistling while the crime was happening.

So [00:06:00] I thought that that was pretty pretty funny.

Remembered him all the way to Harold Square

Yes.

And so there's a fight that goes down. It's like kind of the, the first showdown between the two of them. And Batman is very resourceful, uses his smoke, uses some paint to reveal where he is. But this invisible band is also very resourceful. Uses something about the suit to burn the paint away and uses his invisibility to beat up Batman and, and leaves him there and, and makes his getaway So Batman's beaten the first time.

Something I think you need to establish in an episode like this. And then you think, at least, I thought going from here that he was gonna be going straight for his daughter. But he changes into his real life self and makes a play for the mom first, just kind of showing up and dropping some money and being like, look at me.

I'm in a suit now. I'm changed baby. I'm a new man. You, you can, you can trust and love me. Just don't worry about the restraining order. What restraining order, great messaging for the young [00:07:00] men watching this show in 93. there's a clear boundary there as you say. And why don't you talk about this moment a little bit before we get into Batman, being on the case via Bruce Wayne.

I think that the episode wouldn't have worked without these, I think it's two or three short scenes. He follows her, then he follows her again and he follows her one last time. And I think that was a great testament to the writing of the episode. It would've been so easy to only have him interact with the daughter and to have the mom vent to Batman once.

Oh, he was crazy. And I left him showing how persistent he is in violating her boundaries. Definitely turned my stomach. I also had a moment where I was curious about what caused the initial rift to form between them, because she alludes to the fact that he was just. You know, a crook and not really the most upstanding guy to be around, which very valid.

You don't want that [00:08:00] element around your kid. So she did the right thing. yeah, I think we know all that we need to know, and all that we know is that she wants space. He's not giving it to her. And this is definitely one of the most menacing, creepy scenes we've seen on the show, because it felt real,

I think to the episode's credit, I felt in unease the whole time that I think maybe I'm mistaking as me not liking it, but I think it's what the episode's intending to create is like, this guy is bad, he is persistent, and you learn later on soon that he's also slowly being turned crazy by the technology that he's using to turn himself invisible and enable the stuff that he probably was already feeling.

But it's more so amplifying these, these characteristics about him.

You know what? I'm gonna challenge the episode for doing that. I don't, I think it would've been a bit stronger and I already, I love this episode. I would watch it again, but it would've been stronger if the suit wasn't [00:09:00] poisoning his demeanor or what have you. It would've been more interesting if that was just how he was and the suit allowed him to cut loose.

There would be something very Shakespearean about that.

That's a good point. I wanna move on to the next scene. And it's a very quick scene. We don't have to sit on it for very long and it's, it's Bruce Wayne checking in with Wayne Tech about he knew that there was some sort of canceled invisibility project and he gets a little bit of context that kind of points him in his next direction.

But the only thing I wanna park on in this scene is the fact that we get our first Lucius Fox sighting And am I projecting or does he sound a little bit like Morgan Freeman?

You are definitely projecting,

but you're trying to say that this voice actor has the voice of God.

Anyway, we have Lucius Fox. We're gonna see more. Lucius Fox. He's a, in my opinion, a very important character in the Batman. Lord, do you agree with that?

Oh, absolutely. I think the show definitely under utilizes him.

[00:10:00] So Batman goes off to visit the, the lab where he's directed to, where it's the apprentice of the person who originally designed this invisibility material who has since passed away. Batman shows up at this lab. He is doing his silent detective thing.

He thinks he is being all slick and quiet, but the, the scientist, Goodell actually knows he's there, drops a bookshelf on him, thinks he has Batman draft, doesn't have Batman trap. Batman houdinis his way out of it. And when he realizes who he dropped the shelf on, he's immediately like, hi, I didn't mean it, I didn't know it was you.

Which I thought was, which I thought was really good. Like obviously he's trying to protect his lab, but then he is like, oh no, you're for a, you're a good guy, not a bad guy. Please don't hurt me. Please don't punch my spine out. And we get a little bit more explanation on the material, and this is where we find out that the plastic is actually poisonous to the mind of the person who dons it, even though it gives them the ability to turn invisible from the microfibers or whatever cartoon science they use to explain [00:11:00] it.

And you added a Riddler Trophy here. Why don't you explain your Riddler trophy that, that you wanted to add?

So looking into the future, literally looking into the future and Batman Beyond the bat suit that Terry McGinnis wears turns invisible. So I can't help but wonder if Batman coming across venous in this episode, inspired him to use that technology.

with that information now in his brain space, his detective brain space, Batman is off to meet up with the mother of Kimmy. I don't actually know if we, I think, what is her name, grace. I don't actually remember. I

It might be grace. Let's call it

it might be Grace. Let's call her Grace.

We're gonna call her Grace. I just wrote down the mom the entire time,

Me too.

bad, bad job by me, super feminist of me. For sure. Go do better, Steve. Anyway, but as Batman's talking to the mom and saying that he has this technology [00:12:00] that turns him invisible, she has the realization that the invisible friend that she's been talking to this entire time is actually her father, but Mojo has already come in and done his thing and convinced Kimmy to leave with her via this jeweled necklace that he promised he was gonna get her, that he obtained in this brazen jewelry heist. And he takes her to a drive-in theater where this becomes a PSA for not getting into strange cars with strangers you don't know, which I thought was also incredibly early nineties.

And I

Mm-Hmm.

oh, it's a commercial now, which I, you know, just really, really funny. But she was like, no, mom told me not to get into cars with strange men. It's, we can't do this is dangerous. I, I can't do this. And a Riddler trophy here is that Kimmy being in danger towards the climax of the episode was actually toned down by standards and practices as stated.

Yeah, as stated by Bruce t Tin, they were never allowed to put the little girl in any kind of real jeopardy. Originally, the climax was supposed to be at a lighthouse, and the suit, instead of [00:13:00] just being poisonous, was going to explode from repeated use.

Oh

wow.

was going to be, yeah, venous was going to be hiding in this lighthouse with his daughter and Batman would have to race against time to get to them, but they weren't allowed to do that because that was putting the daughter in into like, real of jeopardy.

And that's why she escapes immediately when Batman shows up and after he reveals his face. So he reveals his face to her as kind of like a last ditch effort to get her to get into the car. Says, I'm your dad. So that's why I am like, oh, she doesn't actually know who her father is because maybe he went away early in her life or earlier in her life before she could remember that as we talked about our earliest memories earlier in this podcast.

And that's why she gets away right away. And I know that you said under that you weren't concerned for Kimmy's life, which I agree. Like they're never going to purposefully do anything to

Right, right, right.

the s and p was like, sorry, too much. Gotta gotta tone it back. So there's like, not never even a chance, and maybe that's why it feels so much like a PSA [00:14:00] because she is so immediately not in danger.

Also, to add to what you said, I don't know if it's because I have. Residual memories of seeing this years and years and years ago that I knew she wasn't gonna be harmed. But that didn't seem to be where the danger was coming from, you know? And also he could have grabbed her or kidnapped her at any point when he was invisible earlier in the episode.

It was the stuff with the mom that pushed him to do that. So in a really fucked up way, I don't think that his beef or his vendetta is grabbing his daughter. I think it's all about control over

his ex. This is all about asserting his control over a woman who set a very clear boundary, doesn't want him around, and if they didn't have a child together, he would've gone about this in a different way with trying to get control over her.

I can't even imagine what he would've done if she had a partner. A man or a woman [00:15:00] or a person that she was involved with, that would've been worse. .

That man's here to look menacing with a sick up angle with the lightning striking behind him, and he flies in and starts to fight.

Venous round, two venous turns invisible and gets into a a car. And the car is also invisible. And this is what a section that I labeled as Batman, ghost riding the whip because he's literally riding an invisible car. I love the moment where he flies by the, the two people sitting on the stoop and they were like, I know he can fly too.

That part. Absolutely. Like I laughed out

They were definitely hitting a ball. They were

hitting a ball, and they were, they saw that. They're like, oh, damn.

Batman and Flyman.

man, this, this blend is crazy.

And he's, he's driving through a bunch of of garbage, and this garbage actually starts to wipe away the invisibility material, which I thought was one of the cooler animations [00:16:00] we've seen on the show so far

Oh, absolutely.

It reminded me of those Superman cartoons from the 1930s. You remember there's this one Superman cartoon where he's punching, I think, shots from a cannon. And the colors are just very vibrant and it's very bombastic. Just, I think this is one of the more ambitious animation sequences the show has done.

And for this to all be hand drawn makes it even more impressive.

A hundred percent. That is like one of the more consistently impressive parts of the show is that they hand drew all of it, which is so cool. And getting into the ending, the final take down is you get them facing down, invisible man, invisible versus Batman. And Batman takes out a three of his ninja stars and tosses them at a water tank that he's standing in front of, and the water reveals his location and he lets out a yell because he knows that he's been revealed.

And Batman comes in and punches his face real good [00:17:00] and, and knocks him out. And, and that's the end of Invisible Band and Charlie. I'm not gonna lie to you. I hated the Sunday. I hated the way the episode ended. I actually, this is gonna be a theme. 'cause I, I really dislike the way both of these episodes ended.

And I actually think the way that both of these episodes ending the way that they did knock down the battering rating for me, which we'll get to in a moment.

Oh

yeah,

yeah, we have another moment where Kimmy is

Kimmy snitches.

just, seems like it's talking to her invisible friend and her mom is like bursting in being like, who are you talking to?

And she's just like, it's just Batman. First of all, what the Batman, why the fuck you there? Like, you're, you don't, you don't need to check in. I'm the little girl. Like, it's good you did your thing. Okay. And yes, Kimmy's a little snitch and I hated it, but I know you liked it. So

It is. Okay. That's so funny. I love that you. Or like Kim, stop snipping. I'm like, she is a child. It was

loose lips.

[00:18:00] loose lips. That's so funny. It would've, okay. What would've tightened up that moment? And I'm gonna make a pitch for that. Do you think it would've been better if there was a world where the mom's like, sure you did.

And she looks out and she sees Batman's silhouette and she kind of gives it a little smile of acknowledgement, you know, to, she sees what he's doing to make it seem a little less creepy, that he's checking in on this little girl.

Would that have made it better?

I don't know. I just feel like you could have just left him alone.

Ah,

Yeah, but that's just me. I guess

but with that, we've come to the end of our first episode, see No evil. Let's go to the ratings. What did you rate out of? Five batter rings. C, no evil.

I am gonna give this four batter rings. What I like about this episode is that you see the writers refining the villain of the weak format, whereas something like the Rupert Thorn shit, which I find to be so [00:19:00] inseparable and so uninteresting because there's not a metaphor at play. This episode in particular, they definitely started hitting at the pulse of the show and what it could ultimately become.

Here we have a villain who we only see once, but he's so interesting. The invisibility gimmick forces Batman to do something outside of his comfort zone. We get that cool car moment where Batman's on an invisible car. We get to show a more street level threat that isn't in it to just blow up a bank or to steal stuff.

He just wants to see his daughter and stalk his wife. So this episode It accomplishes what I feel the writers are always trying to accomplish, which is create their own version of Batman with a rogues gallery that's grounded in this noir world and this crime setting of Gotham that they really want to seem more down to earth than some of the stuff the comics were doing.

[00:20:00] yeah, I like it. I think it did a very admirable job. It's excellent. I don't think it's perfect though, what holds me back from giving this a five batter ring rating is that. It very much is a bottle episode that doesn't have any impact on the overall series. It's an episode that if we didn't watch it at all, we didn't miss anything. But I do think that it's a testament to how tightly the storytelling could really, you know, come together. What do you think? What's your rating?

I am gonna give this one three batter rings. I think it's kind of like maybe a little bit above average in the middle for me. I think it has strong moments. I agree with you that there's some really good animation. But it doesn't, it doesn't quite raise to four level for me. I do think the end kind of took me out a little bit.

Yeah, it's a bottle episode. It really

is a bottle episode, and I think it's one that's really well executed.

with that said, let's move right into our [00:21:00] second episode of Batman, the animated series we're gonna be covering today. The second one is titled Beware The Great Ghost. It was released on November 4th, 1992, right back in our comfort ear, and I'm gonna drop in a Ridler trophy right away.

there's some ambiguity surrounding this episode's title. On the title card, it's spelled Beware the Gray Ghost, GRAY. On the box of the original VHS release, it was called Beware the Gray Ghost, GREY. The box of the DVD release calls it, beware of the Gray Ghost, GRAY, and the DVD's menu refers to it as Beware of Gray Ghosts.

And this one was directed by Boyd Kirkland. Another we're just banging out Riddler trophies right now.

Another one is that Boyd actually cited this as one of his favorite episodes of Batman, the animated series that he has directed due to its moody homage to the pulps and sentimentality as well as it allowing him to meet one of his heroes, Adam West. We'll get to Adam West in a second, the legend [00:22:00] story by Dennis o Flaherty and Tom Ruger and tell a play by Garin Wolf and Tom Ruger.

The plot of the episode is a series of bombings reminiscent of a long lost TV series occur, and the washed up star. Of it may be connected. And so we'll see if this is also one of our favorite episodes of Batman, the animated series so far. So we got the introduction to the Great Ghost Young Bruce Wayne is watching a very Batman reminiscent superhero do his thing on the television.

This is actually a setup to the episode itself because we're getting the Mad bomber set up with these toy cars driving into places and exploding and notes demanding ransoms. And his father, Thomas Wayne, clearly also voiced by Kevin Conroy is telling him to go to bed. And we can put this in here. Now The Great Ghost is voiced by the amazing, the first television Batman, Adam West.

Do you wanna give a moment for Adam West here, Charlie?

Oh, absolutely. Adam West [00:23:00] is goat. He is just I'm gonna get choked up. That actor means so much to me. Me and my dad bonded over the original Batman 66 when I was a kid. We would pop in that DVD and watch the moment of him pulling out the bat shark repellent and just crack up. So I have nothing but love in my heart for Adam West.

be prepared for me to just gush over this episode in particular.

Oh, I love it. Again, we're getting some great juxtaposition here between these shots that you're seeing on the old television screen versus what's going on here in present time. And another parallel continuing, we get a shot of Thomas carrying Young Bruce to bed as the Mad Bomber episode is playing out. And Bruce wakes up from his.

Present day dreams, realizing that this string of bombings is directly connected to this episode of a television show that he used to love as a kid. [00:24:00] So Bruce's first move is to start hunting down the gray ghost to try and see if he knows anything about what's going on.

What I like about this sequence is the juxtaposition of the episode, then showing how Batman moves in his own detective work and something I really wanna applaud this episode for Bruce when he is going through the motions of putting the pieces together of a. Case, he's so serious and he's brooding and he is focused.

I love seeing him grin as he pops in an episode and as he watches the Great Ghost do his thing. It shows that at his core, Bruce is heroic. Even if his parents hadn't been murdered in front of him, there is a version of Bruce in an alternate universe that would've found his way to being a hero of some type.

I truly believe that, at least in this version of Batman and the cartoon that we're [00:25:00] covering, it just shows that Bruce, in spite of all of his pain and all of his angst, he enjoys being a crime fighter.

He does. You do see that shine through here, like you get a lot of, I will. I'm a little bit more curmudgeonly about this episode than you are you, I, I guess we're spoiling the future Is that you like it a little bit more than me, but I can, I can appreciate. This show tapping into the heroism of Bruce Wayne from a young age and being sort of the fuel that launches him into his hero's journey and something that sticks with him the whole time.

So, okay. I will, you've, you've softened my heart and heart on this one for sure. A little bit. So as Bruce and Alfred get on the case, also quick Riddler Trophy to acknowledge that Alfred's mustache in this episode is white. It's the only episode in the entire series where it's not black.

Oh wow. Maybe he was trying something out.

He just wanted to change his hinge profile picture, and he was like, you know what? [00:26:00] I'm gonna let the

gray show and whoever,

yeah, maybe they like it. Maybe the hoes like that.

Graze gra in

Mm-Hmm.

As is the gray ghost.

Luck is in, as is the. Oh, you got me. Well, speaking of the gray ghost, he's living sad right now. He's living real sad. And Bruce and Alfred learned that all of the negatives burned down in a studio fire and that they have to hunt down The person who played the gray ghost in the show, his name's Simon Trent, he is not even living to paycheck to paycheck 'cause he can't get a job.

It's what a sad world where Adam West can't get a job acting or using his vocal talents. he's been paying his rent essentially by selling off his original Gray Ghost merchandise. he's very sad. We get a whole scene of him breaking down and crying because he can't pay his rent. Charlie, I was so sad.

I was like, this is a cartoon for a bat superhero. Why am I feeling sad right now? Why is this making me feel such things? What did you think about [00:27:00] that?

I thought it was a little ham fisted, but I'll let them have it. It doesn't impact my rating because that's how much I love

Adam West, and I

think I'm very biased to some of this episodes, weak spots. Just because hearing Kevin Conroy, who is now deceased and hearing Adam West, who's been deceased for a few years together is such a damn treat.

And

It is really special.

it's very, very special.

I agree with that a hundred percent. You're right. I should have more respect for that for sure.

You

do, you do. But if

something's corny, it's corny. And if

it's corny, we're

also allowed to like it. I like a lot of corny shit, but I think if something is cheesy that doesn't take away its impact. I think in a weird way, it can, I'm, I'm gonna get dragged for this. It can add to it.

sure. I won't drag you for that.

okay, you fucking better

not.

to be, I would never, I mean, I only drag you when you request it. [00:28:00] Okay, daddy. Moving on. just to be clear, I do not dislike this episode and my battering rating will probably reflect that. So I just think that there are some corny moments, including the very end.

Anyway, Adam West. I'm just gonna call him Adam West. Adam West, falls asleep with an empty apartment and he's like, you've paid the right one final time. Old friend looking at his broken poster of Grego that he smashed early in the episode and he falls asleep in his empty apartment with no other way to pay rent.

And he wakes up and all of his stuff is back and he's got a note being like, come and meet me. xo. xo a friend.

Okay, so I'm not gonna lie, this part kind of creeped me out a little bit. You're telling me that Batman creeped into this grown man's apartment and was so light on his feet, which of course, Bruce has ninja training. So I buy it. It didn't bump me meticulously placed everything back and left a note.

We are so lucky that Batman is a good guy.

If Batman were [00:29:00] a stalker, like the invisible dude in the last episode, unhinged, unhinged, he would be so, oh man, you would not want Batman as a stalker.

No, you would not. Adam West goes to meet Batman.

Batman basically is like demanding his help, being like, you know, something, another explosion happens and he runs away and he's like, no, you definitely know something. You recognize that noise. Like you need to tell me what's going on here. And he's just like, I'm just a character. I, I'm not a superhero.

Like I'm just an actor. Like, here's your film. Get outta my face. And Batman's like, you used to stand for something to me. And, and Adam West, in my opinion, very rightly, is like, I am a fucking actor. I am not a superhero. What is, see, this is one moment where I'm kind of agreeing with him being like, are you like this is, this is, I don't know if this is a clean comp, but this is like that moment in Talladega Nights where his dad shows back up and he was like, Ricky, [00:30:00] I was high when I said that you could be second.

You could be third hell, you could even be fourth. It. He is like, I kind of modeled my entire life off of that and he is like, well that's stupid. He is like, that's kind of that moment where I'm like, you entire, you, you modeled your entire life off of this. Like I get it, you're a superhero now, but like, it's kind of crazy to me that you walked in thinking like, this actor is going to be exactly like this superhero that you idolize as a kid.

Or maybe that's just an indication that, you know, Batman never got his childhood

Oh, that's a great interpretation.

Maybe this is Bruce's. This

is Bruce's inner child coming out. Like, do you wanna play and like do this thing? Also, I think it's a moment for Bruce to kinda. You know that feeling when you're a kid and one of your parents' cool adult friends comes and you just think that you can impress them by showing them like your toys or your video games. It's like, oh, come see my room. That's the energy Bruce was giving [00:31:00] this entire episode, like, do you wanna see my room?

Oh my God, a hundred percent. Yeah.

I remember that feeling, and I am

not gonna lie, I'm gonna expose myself a little bit. There are certain areas of my life where I feel that come out sometimes a little bit.

Oh, same

I just did that with a friend of mine that came over the other day,

that's amazing. I feel like for you, knowing you, you being one of my best friends, I feel like you get that way about your workout classes.

Yes. And I would love it if more of my friends came to my workout classes, and I guess this is, now that I'm doing it, I can say it. I just started as a cycling instructor at

Hell yeah.

So I, I think that's gonna be a little bit of an easier bar for entry. As a Barry's is amazing, but it's also just like intimidating to some people, which I try and convince them over and over that it's like, totally fine, just come and do your thing.

You didn't have any issue just showing up and going for it, which is, I'm trying to encourage more people to do, but I'm actually, the way that it manifested this last time is one [00:32:00] of my close friends came over and we were playing Halo. And I have my, I was just talking about this, my second screen, my desktop computer that my best friend's dad basically built for me.

I bought all the parts, but I'm, I like to say that I'm the executive producer of this desktop computer, but I was, I was not the person who put it all together. I was not the editor or the director in any sense of the means. But I've, I'm now streaming. PlayStation two games on YouTube for people to watch and stuff like that.

And so I, I'm like, the last two people who have come over are both nerdy like me, and I've been like, do you wanna see my streaming set up? So anyway, that's how it's manifesting for me right now. My, my big nerdy heart.

How it manifests for me, which you've seen. Like if I have a script that I'm proud of or if I have a scene of something I'm proud of with my

boyfriend or my friends with you, I'm like, oh my God. So I wrote this line, then I wrote this line, then I'll smile and I'll look at the person to see their reaction. Like, was that good? And if somebody says it's good, I'm like, okay, but, but what part of it was good?

But what about it was good?

I know. What about

it? What [00:33:00] about

Feed me.

made me like, I get that, I get that way about my work, and I also get that way about. Movies that I like. I'll like look at people during my favorite part of it to see if it's also maybe their favorite part of it.

It's, it's terrible. It's,

terrible.

So that's why you were looking at me during the bathtub scene at Saltburn. That's why. Got you.

Well, well, not really, because it's my favorite part. I mean, it's a sexy part. Not my favorite part, but I just wanted to see how you would react. 'cause I knew the jaw was gonna hit the floor.

Let me just, you know, I'll just say even though the head pushed back, the pelvis pushed forward. So that's all I'm

Oh shit.

Anyway, we can, we can, we can move on.

We can move on.

Batman grabs the negatives from this episode and he goes back to the bat cave to do research for his own podcast about the Gray Ghost digging through the episode to find out that it's the remote controlled cars that are the bombs.

I know Charlie, you mentioned before Batman really loves being a [00:34:00] superhero, and you said specifically in this scene, you think this really shines through.

yeah. We really get to see how much Bruce cares about what he does, and also how it was kind of preordained that he was gonna be doing this work because it's something that he was drawn to as a child. I also think the adult part of Bruce wants to help his hero out and make him realize what an impact he's had on him. My way into understanding Bruce's psyche in this episode is. If I were to meet a TV writer or director who meant the world to me, who was super down on themselves, I would be so sincere in my efforts of No, no, no, no, no, no, you're, you're amazing. Look at what I'm doing. I'm saving Gotham City because of you.

You inspired me. You really pushed me to be the best version of myself. Question for you, Steve. When Bruce looks in the [00:35:00] mirror, do you think that Bruce thinks he's being the best version of himself by being Batman? Do you think that he's like, yeah, like I'm really at the top of my game right now. Like, how proud do you think Bruce is of his work, or do you think he's torturing himself about maybe not being able to stop every crime?

I'm gonna lean proud on this one because of how the rest of the episode goes. I think because, like you said, he makes such a point of making sure Gray Ghost knows that he matters and what he did had impact and stuff like that. I think he, in this episode, you're kind of seeing the pride that Batman puts in and the source of why he feels proud of it, if that makes sense.

It makes total sense.

Batman armed with this new information that the bombs are in, remote control toy cars is off to tell Gordon what the sit is. Love that We get this continuation of this budding relationship between the two of them. I love how Gordon calls him. What's, what's up friend? What do you have for me [00:36:00] friend?

Like that's, it just shows that they're like, it's their informal, like, I'm trying not to, you know, be too into this, but I'm pretty into it. That sort of thing. Just, you know, just that, that subtle friend. And so the cops are ready for the cars when they show up. Three remote cars are on the way, they get two of them destroyed and Batman's chasing down the third one.

The third one turns out to be a dud and it's actually a distraction. So more can show up and try and blow Batman up and you think that the cars are going to actually get him. But he barely escapes and he sees none other than Adam West, the Gray ghost himself standing on the roof waiting for him.

And Batman again, I think inner child moment now that we're thinking of it this way. I just, I see it a lot more like this being like asking your hero if he wants to like go do superhero with you.

Mm-Hmm.

It's nerdy. Batman is such a little

nerd.

is nerding out for sure. And, Adam West is kind of like, you know what f it, let's relive these glory days.

Like if Batman's telling me I can relive the glory days. Like, [00:37:00] let's try and, I mean, if Batman told me I could relive my glory days and like jump 40 inches and touch a basketball room with both hands again, like, I was certainly chair my hamstrings trying

I feel in this moment. This would be like me meeting Beyonce and Beyonce saying that she loves one of the TV shows or movies that I made.

Mm.

really?

You mean she loves this podcast Charlie?

She loves this podcast. Beyonce is all up on all the things Charlie and Steve are watching.

she needed those salt burn takes just like everybody else,

Yeah. Now we gotta cover Dream Girls.

Oh, watch out. That's honestly, yes. First of all. Absolutely. Let's just book that. Write the Freak. Now. I don't know why I didn't say write the fuck. Now it's not like we've stopped swearing at any point or

Yeah. Get

it the fuck together.

yeah, I do need to get it the fuck together. Well, speaking of this fucking episode more cars appear, they hop into the batmobile together to escape the blast. The collateral damage in this episode is absolutely crazy. The Taxes in Gotham must [00:38:00] be ridiculous. Like, I don't, first of all, should we sidebar this now? It's not like we haven't sidebar enough in these episodes. Like, how do you live in Gotham? Like,

don't know I can't even say, I don't know how expensive property is in Gotham with all of the crime. I don't think

that it would be hard to buy a house or to,

But the taxes are crazy

the

taxes are probably crazy. Absolutely. It just, it's so absurd to me that people would be chill about living in a place with Gotham.

We, the crime is bananas. We're not talking muggings. We're talking invisible men explosions,

psychotic clowns.

cars. Yeah,

Venus flytrap plants. You know,

I,

makes you laugh uncontrollably.

yeah, it just, Gotham is nuts. I would never, but also how Gotham is portrayed in this cartoon is how people see New York City, and I love New York City, so maybe it's kind of a, how I rationalize it in my mind is [00:39:00] people who were born and raised in Gotham, I'm sure there are people that have lived in Gotham all their life, have never been mugged, have never been in incidents like this, and they know how to avoid it just because they have either a soft focus or a sixth sense for just knowing what areas of the city to avoid and who to watch on the drain.

So I think I buy this by saying that people in Gotham City are on a different level of street Smart.

And I think on the other side of that, I'm gonna, yes, Andy, there maybe a perception of what people that are not from New York City see New York City as, I mean, I, you live in la I live in San Francisco, San Francisco. Especially to people who don't live here or understand what it's like here. Their knee jerk reaction.

A lot of the times when I say that I live in San Francisco is, oh, do you feel safe there? Is it okay? Like, how, how bad is it there? And stuff like that. So obviously this is to an exaggerated degree. We don't have super villains driving [00:40:00] remote control bombs into buildings. There's gonna be no visits from the League of assassins anytime soon, at least to my knowledge.

But I do think that there is a parallel where, yes, there's people from New York or from San Francisco that, or from LA that have been there their entire lives. They have this loving feeling of their home, even despite its flaws as extreme as they are, but also the perception of those living outside of the city looking in. Now I wanna get to the part just kind of like the conclusion of the episode, where honestly, it, this is where it kind of knocked my batter ink score down.

This is maybe where it elevates it for you. So I, I do wanna talk about that difference is where Batman brings Gray Ghost back to his layer, which is apparently a scale representation of the Gray Ghost Slayer. So he designed his bat cave completely off of the Gray Ghost Slayer. I was like, what? That felt really weird to me.

What did you think

Bruce is a billionaire. If he's got [00:41:00] it. If you got money, you got money.

it felt like it took the uniqueness of it away from me,

Mm. Okay. I see that. I see that.

know? I guess he's paying this homage to his hero, which we get later here as they move into. I called it this Helga from Hey Arnold style shrine to Gray Ghost basically being like, you've been my hero this whole time. I've, I was basically raised on your ideals to help other people who can't be helped.

And like, I am a hero because of you, which I get. And it like affirms his life. And I think if we're not dealing with as much of the, like, I'm Batman because my parents were killed in a back alley. And then I found purpose in the League of Assassins and then bout to fight crime forever. Like I like this inclusion.

It feels more wholesome. And a Ridler trophy here is that Bruce actually keeps this gray ghost merchandise in the bat cave all the way through the time of Batman Beyond, which is 50 years in the future. [00:42:00] So our second Batman Beyond Reference here, and in blackout the episode from Batman Beyond, he dawns this old hat and goggles as a disguised to shield his identity from.

Ink when she infiltrates the

Oh, I remember that costume.

Yeah. And so that's the Gray Ghost costume that's in the scene right here. And the poster in the shrine, in the Bat cave, I'm calling it The Shrine features the gray ghost holding his cape the same way as the Batman Animated Series logo.

Very cool.

See those, those Easter eggs I really like, I like those little, like subtle intricacies that Batman has. It just, it didn't make a ton of sense to me that he was like, everything I'm doing here is a direct homage to you

Well, not everything, just like

on a design level.

of said everything.

You know,

everything about how I look and act is based on you.

I, not everything like Bruce has been trained by escape artists and the

league of assassins and martial artist, and he [00:43:00] knows how to be a detective. So there are many different influences that Bruce has. It's just like when you meet one of your heroes, you just, you go a little overboard with the

He also assumes he can do all that stuff

Yes, yes. You know, I think

I'm gonna cut Bruce a lot of slack. He, his childhood was destroyed,

That's true.

so him grasping at the gray ghost is him trying to hold on to what joy he did have in his childhood. I'm not mad at him. I'm just happy that Bruce isn't brooding about

Mm.

an element of. Growing up for once. You know, I like that he gets to have this joy.

Steve Bruce is gonna get much darker and much more grim. So enjoy him being a little nerd. Now while you can, this

shit isn't gonna happen. This shit, you're gonna get what you want and you're

gonna look back. You're gonna regret it. You're gonna regret it. Like the light gets kicked out of Bruce. So I enjoy seeing [00:44:00] him light up.

It's, it's adorable. It's cute. Let him be cute.

Okay? I can let him be cute. Charlie, you're such a better person than I am, which is good. So this also convinces Gray Ghosts to leap into action with Batman. And we find out that the bomber, the Mad Bomber, is actually the owner of this pawn shop, this thrift store that he's been selling all, or is it a comic book store, whatever store it is.

This little nerd that he's been selling all of his mad bomber things to, and they do a good job of kind of subverting our expectations, like all the evidence is pointing towards the Mad Bomber. And then we have this moment of realization. He is like, oh, well I sold it off months ago to this guy to pay my rent.

And so they go and confront him. And another precarious situation with the car bombs and Adam West Gray goes to, decides that he is no longer just an actor. He can be a superhero, swings through a window to take out the toy guy, and they all escape before the bombs go off. And they have a sweet little moment at the end that Charlie, I know you really liked.

So why don't you talk about that little, that little [00:45:00] ending moment that you liked.

I thought it was really sweet and I thought it was, it wouldn't have worked if Adam West weren't the voice actor, and maybe it would've worked, but I, it's definitely the show being deeply meta. And paying homage to what an impact. Adam West left on the Batman Mythos, even though his Batman was very particularly campy.

And it's not my favorite Batman, but I respect the hell out of him because it is someone's favorite Batman, and that's all

that matters. There's a version of Batman for Everyone. The show we're covering is my version of Batman that I claim. But I love that Simon Trent has his mojo back and he's like, you know what?

I did make an impact on people. I'm really excited about this work. It kind of reminds me of the actors who were in Power Rangers who at the time were embarrassed that they were in Power Rangers, but now they do all these conventions and fans tell them how they changed their lives and how grateful they are.

So it definitely, it's a love [00:46:00] letter to nerd culture for sure. Which I'll. Talk about a little bit when you see how I've rated this.

I totally agree with that.

Yeah. Lighten the hell up.

little bit. I know. I feel good too. It's not even like I, I'm like depressed about anything right now. Well, I mean, we're always fighting depression on

Oh, we always, always,

know, just like I'm feeling good lately, so I'll go with that. With all that said, we're gonna jump into our final battering ratings for Beware the Great Ghosts.

Charlie went first on the last one, so I'm gonna go ahead and take the lead on this one also, because I assume I rated it lower than you. I, I still liked it, but a few things did bump me out of the four battering range, so I'm going to be giving this one, three and a half battering. I, I think for a lot of the reasons that you said and the, what we talked about didn't even raise my score.

This is what I was always gonna give it. So I think you, you lightened me to a lot of stuff. I did not grip onto the shrine and the influence stuff as strongly. I think the switch of perspective into Bruce's [00:47:00] feeding into his inner child that he never got to nourish does improve a lot of the stuff that I didn't like about it.

But I, I think it does land just underneath that four battering rating, so it's gonna be three and a half for me.

Okay. Three and a half is a good score.

It is.

for me. I'm gonna give this five bat rings.

I think that it is, one of the greatest episodes of the series, and I'm gonna call it one of the greatest episodes of the series because it really captures the sentimental value of the work that Adam West, who's no longer with us, and Kevin Conroy, who's no longer with us, did I'm rating it higher than I would've years ago, if you know what I mean, before Kevin

Conroy passed. I think it just has so much more value now that two of the greats are no longer here. We get an episode that shows everyone can be a hero in their own way, and you never know the positive impact you'll have on somebody's life. It's a very upbeat, life affirming, positive message for a [00:48:00] cartoon that's usually dark and I fuck with it.

So I think it's one of the. Greatest episodes that the series did, it deserves to be in. I think it's gonna be in my top 20.

Wow. I love that, man. And so those are gonna be our batter rings for. These two episodes of Batman, the animated series, we covered See No Evil, and we covered Beware The Great Ghost. Next time we're gonna be coming back with just one episode of Batman, the Animated series, because we have another two-parter coming right behind it.

So when we come back, we're gonna be covering just prophecy of Doom. So just the episode Prophecy of Doom. that's gonna do it for this episode of Charlie and Steve.

Watch stuff. Be sure to give us a follow on Instagram at Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff pod shoot us a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. We've been loving seeing these five star reviews coming in. It's making us feel really, really good. There's more now than the last time we asked you to do it, so if you're listening and you have the moment to, to give us a positive review, we'd [00:49:00] really, really appreciate it.

And you know, give us a follow, keep listening. We're, we're having a wonderful time with this. We're gonna have more movies coming soon and we're gonna keep rolling on with this little project that we're on. So, Charlie, is there anything else you wanna say about that before we head out?

I just love you so much. I love doing this podcast, and thank you all for listening.

It's always a good time with you, my friend. I love you too, and we will look forward to seeing you on the next episode, covering Prophecy of Doom

For myself, Steve Snick and my good friend Charlie Peppers. No, no, no, no.

Batman.

Batman. Bye Fred.

Bye.