Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hello, everybody.

Welcome to Charlie and Steve Watt stuff, a podcast where Charlie

and Steve Watt stuff. Usually I'm joined by one of my best friends, Steve Snick, but today we're gonna do something a little different. I'm joined by one of my oldest closest friends, Edmund Jeong. Edmond, how's it going?

I'm here, man. Chilling, living the great light. Charlie, how are you? Yeah.

not just chilling. You are thriving. So. One of

my favorite things about Edmond is that he.

is one of those people in life we met in college, and he is somebody who is constantly pushing himself, always trying to be the best version of himself, and he is the true definition of steel sharpening steel.

So, Edmond, how did we first meet? Like what do you remember about us? I think. I met you when you were 18 and I was 19 and we were both in [00:01:00] Macomb Hall

I'm trying to think. So we met college, right? You? You were a year old above me. So my first year I was in McComb my first year. So you must have been around then. But I don't think we really started like getting closer to each other. And when you were, when we were in McCall, you just, like, Charlie was always busy.

I think Charlie was like working for the, the paper, doing a million things and running around. So I don't know. Charlie had time for friends at that time of his life, but I remember, I think was when you started to get more involved on like in the, with maybe student associations when we probably got more connected and closer connected around that time.

I know USA president and then that's when I, I think after that I joined SA when I was a senator of some sort, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, you were, oh my God. I forget which administration. I think I was in the 44th

Oh, you remember those? You remember those details, Charlie?

yeah, I had to look at that shit on agendas all the

Every day. Every day, right?

so I think you were the 45th administration with pj. Yeah.

that's, that's dope. But yeah, we [00:02:00] started connecting more so

After I graduated and

we have a very

special

friendship because despite being on

different coasts, we stay connected mostly through phone calls, which Edmond is somebody who

is.

willing to. Both balances life, but also create space for people like me, which I really appreciate. And something else that I want Edmond to talk about, which connects to

today's

episode, which.

is Race and Batman is the work that Edmond does with young people.

So Edmond, tell us a little bit about

the work that you do in the classroom.

Yeah, so I'm an educator. I'm a teacher educator. So currently in my, in my role as a teacher educator, I, I serve as a, as a college professor and university professor. So I teach teachers and I prepare teachers. Prior to that, I was a sixth grade middle school science educator where I taught science in the Bronx.

To, you know, little middle school babies [00:03:00] black and brown youth in the Bronx in a very similar school district where I grew up and was raised in. And my work has since really evolved, right? The reason why I transitioned from being a classroom teacher to becoming a teacher educator and somebody who prepares future educators is 'cause I realized you know, since young as a child, just how many deficits and disparities there are in education, particularly in urban education, the urban cities, inner cities.

Especially facing black and brown and you know, migrant populations in New York City and across the country. And I wanted to ensure I was kind of like doing my part in supporting and preparing educators to be the best, most effective and responsive educators that they can be. And that's really the, the, the gist of it.

More specifically, my, my work, really, my research revolves around hip hop and how can we leverage hip hop as a tool. To support young people in connecting to content in school and education in general, but leveraging hip hop as a critical and conscious art form that we can interrogate to make sense of the world and the realities around us.

Yeah, [00:04:00] that's super dope. And I like that you're able to interweave parts of the culture into the work that you're doing. Not only teaching educators, but helping young people wrap their minds around what they're learning in the classroom. I think

that's dope. And I also to, yes. And what you said. Art is so underrated in

how it helps people. Form their ideas of the world. And

as a young person, one of the biggest art forms that helped me grasp concepts in the classroom and just in life in general were comic books. I learned how to read from reading comic books when I was

younger. Like my dad handed me X-Men and Batman comic

books, and we were able to bond over the characters and really. Go back and forth, and one of my favorite shows is the show that,

me and Steve Zelnick we're recapping right now, Batman, the Animated series. [00:05:00] And the

reason that I wanted to have this conversation with you is

I,

a black kid watching these cartoons,

I didn't realize.

that I was mostly watching characters who didn't look like me

Yeah.

Didn't look like my father or my mother, but I still assumed that that was the status quo. Like, oh, okay. Of course, Batman has to be a white person. Of course, his sidekicks are all white. Of course Spider-Man is a white dude, you know? And I'm now looking

back and wondering how much,

More impactful. It would've been for me, young Charlie and Young Edmund to have miles at our age or

to have the new Batman who is a black person.

Like

What was your experience growing

up and realizing that a lot of,

the superheroes in pop culture didn't look like you?

you know, I think similar to you. I didn't really rec, I didn't notice it. I didn't pay attention to it. It, I, I [00:06:00] think, you know, as. As a young person in our generation, I wasn't really taught to be critical. You know, I grew up in a black neighborhood, right? I have, you know, my parents are from Ghana, west African, so I grew up around a particular culture and comics and.

Cartoons were a part of my life, not a major part of my life, but I was never pushed to think, oh wow, like, these folks don't look at me, look, don't look like me. It was like, these are the cartoons that are on and like, you know, how can you appreciate and enjoy what's on? You know, just as a way to kind of just disconnect, but never really critical and thought around hmm, a lot of these cartoons.

But also when I think, when I reflect Charlie, I didn't, I wasn't really into a lot of the white cartoons, you know, I was into, I was into Captain Planet. You could argue

yeah.

you could argue that he's black, right? That Captain Planet is, captain Planet was black. I was also into like rocket power, right?

And you talk about like comic books and comics. I never understood Batman. I'm like, dude, you're rich. Right? You gotta go and [00:07:00]

He's, he's rich. He,

to save the world.

I know, it's so funny. We talk about that a lot because I think that if Bruce Wayne were a black person, his approach to his community would be much different

Yeah.

I think that the greatest thing that Bruce could do if you really wanted to save Gotham is run for office and just really

Right.

house housing and Gotham so that people aren't fucking running around with Tommy guns, you

Yeah. Yeah.

yeah, it, it definitely is a superhero world from a. White perspective

of you fix things by policing

Right.

and the situation even more heavily. Like do

you think that

Batman

is essentially a

cop.

Batman is his own cop. And, and Batman is like, you know, he has his own police department himself. [00:08:00] He, he doesn't, you know, but he's worse than cops. At least, you know, cops in some sense have to answer to somebody in some way, shape, or form. There's a system, a structure, infrastructure, institution of policing.

There's no institution of Batman. So who does Batman answer to?

No one. He really is a

billionaire. And if we're zooming out in the real world, I think there's a cognitive dissonance between how people view class in our society, like. You and me we're much closer to people who are impoverished than people who are billionaires. You know, I think not a lot of people recognize that you're two to three, maybe more paychecks away from being unhoused.

Like if you have a medical emergency and no Health insurance,

something can happen to you. You could be on the streets if something happens with your housing. You could be in an unstable situation for a while. I think

that a part of Batman's appeal is the wish fulfillment of, oh, look at this billionaire.

He's able to [00:09:00] just do what he wants. He's able to jump in and save everybody. So I

think it

really is this American fantasy of what you can do when you have wealth.

Yeah, and I think it's about like the context. So you think about billionaires now, like we have so many more billionaires than we've ever had. So when Batman was created initially, there were some billionaires around, but not nearly as many as we have right now.

And when you think about how, like look at Elon Musk for example, right? Billionaire bought up Twitter with some pocket change and is able to control, you know, this this platform that in some way was kind of created for like in, in a sense of free speech, you know, and allowing people to get their ideas around.

And now he's able to police that space and that platform. And monetize off of it. And also there's no, not really a space for free speech as as much anymore. 'cause now you have to have all these other subscriptions to really engage in the, with the application as much in the, in the platform as much.

I think we've always been in a space, in a context where, you know, those in power. I. [00:10:00] You know, they take advantage and do what they want. And, and, and, and in our country, in our society, it's okay. We like, we we're like, we know they, they generated that wealth in their own, that's a perception for a lot of billionaires, right?

They generated that wealth. So they should be able to do whatever they wanna do.

Hmm

mm-Hmm.

we, we often give 'em a pass and we're not also a, in our society, not hypercritical of these folks as well, including Batman, right?

We're not because there's a intrigue surrounding them. We think, okay, one day if we work hard enough, we can be a billionaire. But I don't think that you become a billionaire by being

A hard worker.

model hard worker. No. You get good at standing on the shoulders of other people like.

Absolutely.

It, it really, it tickles me when people are like, ah, Elon Musk is my hero.

Mark Zuckerberg is the dude. I'm like,

you realize that these people not only have private jets that they use constantly to zip from point A to point [00:11:00] B, but things like Twitter now called X, which is stupid, and things like Facebook. I would say that they co-opted free speech

Mm-Hmm.

in a way to where free speech is a way to oppress people

Yeah, from

ideas that threaten the identities of those in power.

So I feel that that is one of the biggest pieces of. Kind of billionaires going

into

the social media space, and I know that

Twitter was really

used

a lot for

community organizing, and it was really pivotal and the Black Lives Matter movement, so for, somebody like Elon Musk to get on it and to really promote. Hate speech, but kind of oppress people who wanna speak against the same thing is, it's very, [00:12:00] very interesting. What do you think?

I mean, I think we gotta start operating from the space of thinking that, or recognizing that most billionaires, especially those who get to the billion and obviously wanna continue to increase their, their profit, their net worth, and their profit they don't care about social justice. And social justice is counter to their, it doesn't benefit them, right?

Social justice means that we pay everybody equitable wage. If we're able to do that, then that means, you know, Walmart, folks in Walmart won't be lining up for welfare and you know, and, and benefits that come from the, the government a livable wage at least. Right. So thinking about social, so you think about Batman and what's one of the things that Batman could have done instead of going out into the world and developing this skill and talent of beating up criminals and villains, is he could have donated his wealth right.

have donated his wealth.

In, in some way, shape, or form, right? I think when we think about Batman, the fallacy of Batman, it's, it's just also this idea of like that one person or one group of people or one [00:13:00] institution has the authority and the right and the power to create an equitable world for the people as opposed to how do we empower the people to create an equitable world for themselves.

Right, right. I think to yes. And what you just said, Batman isn't considering what people need in Gotham to become. Better, more capable individuals in that space. I think it just comes from his projection of, oh, what would make

Gotham better? I'm just gonna patrol and I'm gonna break people who are breaking the law.

And I think if we really dig into it, not even considering why certain people are doing crime in the first place.

And just coming at it from, oh, you're stealing from my billionaire friends, or You're doing this. Like, we had an episode recently where we joked that Batman had no business chasing Catwoman, let her steal [00:14:00] from billionaires.

You were just horny, Bruce. You thought she was

attractive and you chased after her. Oh, I got you. I got you stealing those pearls. You gotta go to jail now. So

Right.

not having any understanding that. People are doing this not just for the thrill of it, they're doing it because it's hard in these streets.

Yeah. But you know, like if we compare a Batman, right? Or you know, a Batman or a traditional comic, right? Similar to Batman, to. And we look at uh, black Panther, right?

Hmm.

Obviously different, different, completely different themes. But then what I love about what Black, and the reason why Black Panther was so big is 'cause we haven't really seen not only black characters, right, but black characters in a black futuristic world or in a black world in general, right?

There's not many comics that follow that, that followed up those themes and those trends. So. I think when we think about Batman and the power of Batman, bat Batman exists, exists in the world in a [00:15:00] society where capitalism thrives and exists, right? It's necessary. And all Batman does is support the status quo, right?

Perpetuate it.

and, and especially perpetuated, right? Yeah, absolutely. Right. And. We think about black characters and having more black representation in comics and in superhero worlds, you know, what does it look like for us? I think sometimes the initial thought is like, you know, let's just make Batman Black, right?

A black character. But like, what does it look like if we created a Batman character that was probably had similar themes and cultures to a black character or a la Latino character similar to what Spiderman did with Miles? With Miles Morales, right? I think it was a very interesting and unique flip that we didn't really anticipate, but we can appreciate.

We can appreciate it and honestly. I think it would make more sense for Spider-Man to be black than for Batman to be black, because

Spider-Man doesn't represent capitalism.

Spider-Man is

called the Friendly neighborhood [00:16:00] Spider-Man. Even that is more applicable.

to the people and people who could come from communities that are oppressed by, you know, not only capitalism, but a police state or what have you.

So

One of the main

things that I love about Miles.

Morales as a character is that he's so down for his neighborhood.

It doesn't come from a place of vengeance. It comes more from a place of pride, like, ah, I love Harlem. I love this barbershop. I'm gonna help this person find their cat.

Batman would never think of the little guy.

Yeah. That's a great point.

Batman would never, Batman's just not approachable. He would just, he's like, oh, if something's getting blown up, I'm gonna bunch up a bunch of goons and do my thing. Spider-Man is there in the daytime.

In the daytime. He's not trying to strike fear

Yeah.

He's just all about being like, Hey, hit me up on this [00:17:00] app. What's good? I'm here.

And Batman was, there's a connection between Batman and the police, like explicitly, right. The police called Batman.

mm-Hmm.

had a, there's a bat signal that the, if the police needed Batman, he would pop up and show up for Spider-Man, the police didn't really like Spider-Man.

They don't,

Right. So

is he yt?

Right, right, right. So like, I love that the juxtaposition around supporting the institution and, and not supporting the institution between both of those characters.

Yes. And I love, this is the thing in the video game and I can't wait for you to play Spider-Man two 'cause they lean more into miles's culture and all

Oh, word.

gonna Yeah, it's, it's fucking dope. He pretty much becomes the main Spider-Man and Spider-Man two and rises above Peter in some ways.

But what I really

like is that with the app in the game. Spider-Man, the people are telling Spider-Man what they need and directly [00:18:00] going to him for help. So I thought that that was really powerful. And I

also like that in the Marvel universe, we do have somebody to take it back to Black Panther, to lives in this world that has

never been colonized. And

that's his mindset. It's

Yeah.

For him to come from a place where black people have wealth and resources. You

And power,

empower, empower and culture, and everybody knows their lineage. Nobody

was kidnapped on a boat and people. Then have to, you know, swab their mouth and mail it in to figure out where they came from.

Which I think it's so

wild that black people have to pay for that shit. But that's something for us to unpack later. I think if somebody like Bruce Wayne were to go to Wakanda. He would definitely try to take some of their resources to make his gadgets better. In Gotham, he'd be like,

Yeah. Yeah.

Can, can I use [00:19:00] this?

Mm-Hmm. The argument that their resources will help create a, a better world, but they're like, nah, we could just do it on our own. And that's, that was part of the narrative in Black Panther and in Black Panther, right? The whole world. Everybody wanted the vibranium and they were like, no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna share this with the world because we don't trust you.

He.

Yeah, we don't trust you. What was your, what are your thoughts on Killmonger? His argument, I have thoughts, I have thoughts about the first Black Panther movie and that character, but I

want you to go first 'cause I, I don't think. He was all in the wrong.

I think kill monger. I mean understanding, I can understand his character and I can understand his his pain, but I think it was, it was, it was mainly that, right? Not like a, a true understanding and this idea of like going back and taking what was his, because, you know, because the pain that was afflicted, inflicted of him on as a child and not having connections with to his, his home then, and motherland.

You know, as [00:20:00] much as everybody else who's come from the lineage. So for him to go back and want to do that, you know, you can also make the argument that it's, it was probably based off of his his upbringing in American society, right? This idea, know what? Condoms are communal, right? So you have all these different tribes, right, who at times can battle and fight with each other, but they come together for the greater purpose of their community always.

Right? And Kill Monger was kind of opposite of that. He wanted to go in there and he just wanted to get the power and, and, and, and be empowered on his own outside of everybody else. So that's, I think that's counter to what existed in Wakanda traditionally. But his, his experience and upbringing outside of that I think led to, you know, having a different experience and, and desire for what he wanted.

And so for what common to actually be.

Yeah, man. I think going off of what you just said, the way that he went about it was definitely fucked up.

And

the fact that he was doing that to his [00:21:00] people, I think if he had come to Wakanda, there's an alternate universe where he just comes to Wakanda to be embraced, to just be with his family. But I think.

yeah.

Him particularly coming from the military and also just being American

and thinking that there's only one way to conquer. It's not about being communal. It's about being better

and having more, and you're not, you're not worth anything unless people are beneath you.

So I would say that those aspects of,

And I'm gonna take

it there. White supremacy

definitely tainted what

he thought

he needed to find peace

within himself and what happened to him. So I think he was definitely impacted by

his upbringing and by how he saw the world old.

Yeah, a hundred percent his American socialization. And then also being a part of the Army doesn't support, you know, definitely supports this idea of qu conquest, [00:22:00] right? Imperial imperialism. Colonial canonization. Like we have how many American bases in, in, in other countries all across the world because we, we need our, we, we need our imprint everywhere.

We need to be a part of everywhere and everything. You know, the America, this idea of conquest, we don't, we didn't only conquest and colonize this land North America. But you know, we're also participating in colonialization elsewhere outside the world, so particularly through the, you know, the US Army and the, you know, yeah.

American Armed Forces.

Absolutely. I think that that is, so that's why Black Panther is such a great movie, and that's why when it is compared to something like Batman, it's interesting because Batman Doesn't Kill, which I

always find to be so interesting, refuses to kill, but will

break every bone in your goddamn

beat you to a pulp.

He'll beat you to a pulp, but I'm not gonna kill you. I'm just gonna throw you.

Oh my God. Yeah.

prison. I'm [00:23:00] like, he is bodying, bodying people. And it, it's very interesting to me that he's like, oh, I'm just gonna throw you in prison. But I think

for somebody like Bruce, he doesn't understand that particularly for a black person and for somebody who isn't a white male, well, hell, even if you are.

A white male, you, The true definition of

being canceled is going to

prison. once you go to prison,

when you get out, you can't vote.

That is forever. Something that

you have to tell future employers about You Pretty much.

lose access to those years of your life, you know?

Only if you're, only if you're a felon Charlie.

yeah,

gotta gotta catch, you gotta, you gotta, they gotta catch a big case for that.

They gotta catch a big case for

Yeah. Right.

but I, I, I do think that Batman underestimates just what the prison industrial complex really means

The, the [00:24:00] thing about Batman that really, I mean, it, it doesn't confuse me or surprise me. I think we understand why Batman is who he is, right? But it's also you're rich. Like, you don't, you don't have to do this. So why, like, why? And it's because he's rich. It is because what is the power that his, well, his wealth allows him, right?

And the access that he has to create these gadgets and these tools. And have the wealth to create this identity and this persona to go out there and through his eyes, you know, create a better society. But it's like, it's a better society, mainly through your personal perspective. You don't, you know, Batman is not welcome in my hood.

He would not be welcome in my hood.

Batman doesn't understand your hood.

right.

is trying to understand how crime works in your hood, but I think it's so funny in the cartoon we're covering right now, Batman, one of his favorite disguises is poor Bruce Wayne, where

Oh, that's horrible.

I know, I

know. He messes up his hair. He puts a little eye makeup on and he goes undercover. To figure out [00:25:00] what's happening in the quote unquote slums so that he

Oh,

insert himself into certain issues.

Edmond, if we were going to, and this is like me wanting to like cook with you a little bit in real time, if we were going to create a version of Batman that were black, do you think? Because.

of what Batman perpetuates and promotes as a white, cis, heterosexual billionaire, do you think that that character Would work If it were

a black

man.

from old money doing all of these things? Thanks.

Yeah, I think, look, you know, I think you can, the race doesn't matter in that regard, right? Because you could be a black person and still perpetuate, these ideas of power and contr, and you contribute to a system of oppression, right? This is the conversation I have, I have with my students this past week.

You know, there are even black people who participate and engage in self-hate, right. Um, And, and yeah, and [00:26:00] perpetuate stereotypes. So of course they can be a Batman who was born, who was born into wealth, doesn't understand oppression, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't understand how systems contribute to oppression and, and go on and be and be a Batman.

I think a black Batman would be looked at. He wouldn't be as praised as a white Batman. 'cause then there'll be this critique of like, come on, son, you black too. Right? Even if you're a black billionaire, you should understand these contexts and nuances. But the reality is that he may not look how many black people are, are contributing, participating in, you know, oppression of, you know, black and historically marginalized communities across the country today.

You know, look at what, what's her, what's, what's, what's her face? You got candy? Oh, I'm not even going into the politics of it, but you have all these people. You know and politics and education, you know, and, and, you know, and, and every level and every level of systems and societies that you know, that we navigate is, is not only politicians or black Republicans or people, you know, in that, in that, in that realm, there are black teachers who support [00:27:00] these ideas of oppression and participate in these ideas of oppression knowingly and un and both unknowingly.

Yeah. And. When they're doing it unknowingly, most of the times unwittingly when you confront them about it. Just very defensive

Yeah.

I think if we were to change Bruce's race to a black person, he would have a lot of the same blind spots because of being sheltered as the result of having this enormous wealth.

So I think.

Those conversations. could be interesting

Yeah.

from his standpoint of like, oh, I really don't understand this community that I'm protecting, that if circumstances were different I would be one of the people here. So I think, yeah, there's a lot of different places that we could go with that. But I

think, and this is one of the last points that I want to talk

about, 'cause I find it so confounding. Do you ever see the public discourse that happens [00:28:00] whenever it's rumored that a black actor is going to play a typically white part like Idris

Elba maybe being bond like why do white people get so mad about that? It's so

interesting to me.

you're ruining their classics, Charlie, this is the shit that they grew up on. They're like, whoa, whoa. My whole life, this character's been white. I can't imagine them black now. Right? It's like,

Yeah.

go, go hide in their rock somewhere. That's, you know, America we love. America loves tradition.

America loves keeping the sta the same status quo. And although, you know, there's a lot of perceptions and these ideas of progressiveness, it's like you can't be too progressive. We can't move too fast. Right. One thing at a time. So yeah, I got you at Wakanda. You know, that should hold you down for the next five, 10 years.

Yeah. Yeah.

stay away from other comics, from the other comics and other superheroes for a couple, for a little while.

Yeah, we

[00:29:00] gotta, we gotta stay away from that. And I think that

it. it's so funny whenever that

happens online, those conversations of how dare you make Bruce Wayne A. Black person? How dare you make James Bond black? I think what we're experiencing is the fear of what happens to us so often

Yeah, yeah,

made invisible, happening to white people

yeah.

everything is built around whiteness, and when that is threatened for a second, it's like, oh no, I, this isn't good at all.

You know?

Yeah. Can whiteness ever be invisible? Charlie? I see it everywhere I go,

I see it everywhere I go too. You know, it's so the standard

Yeah.

that When I.

was a little boy making comic books, I remember drawing my own original characters and the leader in my comic books was white because that is normal in America. You think anything other than being white is. Literally [00:30:00] other, but if

we really look at it, Race is something that

was created by white people.

So it's

is a social construct.

it's such a social construct and it's something that deeply influences all of us.

Yeah. What if there was a white, what if they changed Ronald McDonald's into a black person? How would America, how would America respond? Not my McDonald's.

I

my McDonald's.

not my Ronald hashtag, not

my Ronald McDonald's. Oh my God. It would be fucking riots. They'd

be smashing the drive through windows of

McDonald's. You know, because these things

Why.

sacred and I think advertisement is. Tantamount to religion in

America and Western civilization because we're not taught what makes us happy.

So we have advertisements in these characters that kind of show us what we could be. [00:31:00] And the

fact that most of them are white is something that really influences the way that people move And. Kind of exist in certain spaces.

Yeah, it's just America, man. but you know, the one thing. That I, that I love to see, and I love that we're seeing right now more and more in our societies, just opportunities that we, you know, you just, people are, have to create and create their own narratives, their own themes. Right. And how you don't have to, you know, I mean, it's still difficult to get put on in Hollywood and to get your, your script, but you know, you can write your own YouTube short.

You know, you can create your own Instagram reel of, you know, something that you can imagine and you can, you can curate. So I think because of that and access to social media we're seeing a lot more and a lot more in different variations of characters that are imagined by other people. Like I was on Instagram and, you know, Sarah showed me Black Harry on Instagram.

I'm like,

Oh, I love Black Harry.

right, right. So we're able to see [00:32:00] these different renditions that are unique. That, and that are, that are the, that are birthed from just different di diverse back people from diverse backgrounds. That the issue, that one of the main issues are we see all these white superheroes.

'cause all the people in those writing rooms are white,

They are, they

you know?

imagine a world where that isn't at the center.

Exactly. So, you know, we'll figure it out one day. Charlie will figure it out one

will, we will one conversation at a time, but yeah,

There you go.

I think that's a good place to close. This conversation has just been like, always, it's been nourishing, like you're so good at just being able to fucking chop it up. I appreciate you so much.

Always, Charlie. Likewise, always here.

Do you wanna let our audience know where they can find you?

Yeah, you can find me where I'm at on Instagram, the king aja pong, [00:33:00] T-H-E-K-A-N-G-A-D-J-A-P-O-N-G. And on Twitter at just king ajapon. So that's K-A-N-G-A-D-J-A-P-O-N-G.

Excellent. Edmund Ajapon, everybody, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening to our conversation. Happy Black History Month. Even though

it's the shortest month of the year, that doesn't mean we can't capitalize on the shit,

and

Charge double this month.

yes, absolutely.

Oh man. Thanks for having me, Charlie.

Absolutely. Bye.

Later.