Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi friends Welcome to Charlie and Steve watch stuff. And today we are watching the devil wears Prada My name is Steve Selnick and joining me as always, yes, those are the Chanel boots. It's Charlie Peppers. Charlie, how you doing today, friend?

I'm doing well, ready to not move at a glacial pace, cause I know that that doesn't thrill you.

We're gonna just get as many of these movie puns in as possible as we talk about it, but the person who actually helped me remember how exactly to say that line so we could get this thing kicked off and on the road is here with us. We have another guest joining us on Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff for another movie to talk about.

we'd like to welcome in Billy LaRusso. Billy, how are you doing

I'm doing very well, guys. How are you all doing?

Oh, we're doing very well, thank you. Now, as we always like to start off in Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff before we actually dive into the content itself, Charlie, this is another one of your friends that you're bringing onto the show, so I would just love to hear quickly about how you and Billy are connected and know each other.

Well, I first met Billy [00:01:00] through his incredible partner, Mark. Mark and I, we worked on a production together, forgetting what the production was a few years back, but me and Mark hit it off, then eventually I went over to Mark and Billy's place to watch, I believe, what was an episode of Drag Race, and then proceeded to hit it off with Billy.

Billy is one of those people who's so effortlessly funny to the point it's just such a delight to always be around him. But he He is also someone who knows how to be funny without being mean, which is a really rare talent in Los Angeles. If you were to read any of his work, it flies off of the page, the characters come to life, he has a really great attention to detail, he's passionate about what he does, and he's also such a damn sweetheart.

And I think the years have flown by in terms of How long we've [00:02:00] gotten to know each other and have been in each other's lives. I don't know, Billy, how long have we known each other?

Yeah, I was actually just thinking about that as you said it and it's crazy. I think we met in 2021 and it feels like it was just yesterday. But yeah, it's been three years now that we have. Been in each other's graces.

Yeah, yeah, and I'm going to Billy and Mark's wedding in July, so Mazel Tov, congrats, I can't

Thank you. Yes, we can't wait.

Oh, I love it.

Very cool. I love I I will never get sick of hearing Charlie gush about his friends. It's one of my favorite activities.

He's really so good at it, so it's so like articulate and eloquent and flattering. So thank you Charlie, and please know that everything you said is mutual. You are fantastic, and I'm very excited to be talking with you for the next couple hours.

quickly, before we get into the plot of the Devil Wears Prada, which is the subject of our podcast today, Billy, I know Charlie just mentioned quickly that what you write jumps [00:03:00] off the page to him. Will you quickly just fill us in about what you do, what you write, and stuff like that?

my, my pleasure. So I write a lot of adult animated and adult live action comedy. I think I thrive in the sitcom world, mostly where You know, I, I tend to like to write pieces that make people feel comfortable. They make them laugh at, you know, when you're homesick from work or homesick from school or, you know, whatever, you can pop on an episode and you always feel like they're just like a warm blanket covering you like comfort meals, but for television and movies.

So that's kind of the world I live in. I, I really enjoy a nice satirical look on anything really, but especially things in the government world I live in. You know, the entertainment world, things along that vein, are very much what I enjoy writing.

Right on. Very cool. Well, we're, it's an honor to have you on the show with us today. And we're going to jump right into the subject of, of today's podcast. I believe a favorite for both of yours or a favorite film of both of yours. I would [00:04:00] assume so for Charlie, since he's the one who picked this as the subject of the first movie we're covering in our movie swap, but we are covering.

The Devil Wears Prada, released on June 22nd, 2006. It was written by Aileen Brosh McKenna, who is the writer of the film's Mourning Glory. 27 Dresses, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, that's a TV show. And it was based off of the book by Lauren Weisberger, and it was directed by David Frankel, of course, starring Anne Hathaway and the legendary Meryl Streep.

And the plot of the movie is Andy, Anne Hathaway, is a recent college graduate with big dreams. Upon landing a job at the prestigious Runway magazine, she finds herself the assistant to diabolical editor, Miranda Priestley. Meryl Streep. And he questions her ability to survive her grim tour as Miranda's whipping girl without getting scorched.

And since this is Charlie's movie that he chose in our first movie swap, I'm now going to pass the proverbial pump over to Charlie to take us through the plot of the film and to go over what [00:05:00] we left. So, Charlie, take it away, my friend.

let's dig into the beginning of this film, gentlemen. Act 1, New York City, early morning, we see a lot of women getting ready for the day, and one of the first things that I realize is the effort put into making Anne Hathaway just look. Like, the every woman compared to all of the model like girls who were getting dressed to, I assume, work at the runway magazine, so that juxtaposition was a really smart way, in my opinion, of just showing how far she had to go in her transformation and what she would ultimately step inside of.

There's also a bit of the script that I wanted to share with both of you. Andy's character description is telling. It says, Andy Sachs, 20s, pretty but not glamorous, smart but not green, hair up in a towel, brushing her teeth. Very simple, very [00:06:00] straightforward, and it tells us pretty much everything we need to know about this character.

So I have a question for both of you. This movie is so iconic and it's so a part of pop culture. Did it feel like when you were watching this movie, you had already experienced other movies or TV pilots that did setups like this? Cause I feel that particularly in the mid 2000s to the early 2010s, a lot of pilots were Really influenced by this movie, and we had a lot of the working girl goes to work at a magazine, or a fashion house, and they have a demanding boss, so I'm wondering if you saw anything that reminded you of this movie.

I mean, I definitely think I've seen a few pieces, not even so much, you know, just from that specific era, Charlie, I think, you know, long term over the past, like 30 something years, it's become such a. Used [00:07:00] trope that we see, you know, one version of this character before we know that this person is going to change.

Even something like the Princess Diaries, you know, to bring up another Anne Hathaway movie where we see a character sort of living in one realm before they eventually move into another. But with regard to the specific, like getting ready montages and things like that, Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, one of my other favorite films, you know, Legally Blonde is very similar in, in theme to this you know, there's no necessarily makeover look.

Elle Woods always stays this, you know put together like Barbie type. She just transitions through, but in the beginning of the movie, the beginning of the film, we see her getting ready, you know, to go on a date and whatnot. So yeah, I think that that's a nice parallel.

Yeah, I mean, I love this opening. You know, with very few words, we're able to pick up exactly on exactly who our protagonist is. just by juxtaposing her morning routine with the other morning routines of the runway. Girls. You know, I love the little things [00:08:00] like, Andy grabbing a bagel and the other girls grabbing almonds.

We see Andy getting on the subway and the other girls getting in town cars you know, the other girls are putting on lace panties and, and high heels, and Andy is putting on a quote unquote frumpy sweater and, like high socks and a ugly skirt and all that stuff. So. Yeah, I think the Devil Wears Prada excelled at this a very common trope in that time.

When you think of shows like, you know, ugly Betty, or you think of movies like Legally Blonde, where we see people getting ready you know, I think Devil Wears Prada really is the golden standard for that type of opening. So I think it took what was highly influential at the time and before and sort of ran with it and gave us everything we needed to know about our protagonist without any words spoken at all.

to, yes. And what you said going into a character introduction without any words spoken at all, is Miranda Priestly when we see her breeze into the [00:09:00] office before she opens up her god damn mouth, we see how everybody makes space for her. People are like, oh, I'm so sorry, Miranda. Oh I'll give you the elevator, Miranda.

So she very much is. The head bitch in charge. She's the devil, and the devil is Prada. She is just so iconic in this role, and what I really love is that the first encounter that she has with Andy, who comes in for her job interview at runway shows on full display, what both her strengths and weaknesses and what Andy's strengths and weaknesses are.

Because to be honest, Andy showed up to a whole ass job interview, not researching anything, anything that baffles me for as smart as this character is to this day, I kind of raise my brows like girl, really? So I, I'm very [00:10:00] much on Miranda's side in this scene when she says, oh, and you have no sense of fashion.

Actually, I don't think that's, no, no, that wasn't a question. So what, what do you think? It is about Andy and this scene that impresses Miranda enough to give her the job after having such a sloppy start.

I think that

And, and I think they touched on this a little bit as well with Emily kind of when, when Emily sets up like, oh yeah,

the last

two

have gotten like chewed up and

spit up by her, I think that there's

a, and, and maybe it's referred to later in the film as well, like a, a notion of like, yes, this person is a fashion disaster and she didn't know what she was walking into, and maybe that's what we need. maybe that's why

these last few people have failed because they're all cut from the same cloth and maybe going against the grain here is the right answer. And I think she does see like a lot of the, like I don't give a fuck sharp edge smartness that maybe she had at that age as well.

I double down on that.

I agree. I think, I think [00:11:00] Miranda is, for lack of a better word, kind of gagged when Andy has the gumption to speak up and say like, you know, Hey, I know you think my clothes are terrible, et cetera, et cetera. But I'll work really hard. I don't think anyone speaks to Miranda like that ever in her life in general.

I don't think anyone close to her personally, professionally, and to have someone speak to you in a manner that you're not used to. I'm sure everyone's experienced that. You're sort of taken aback. You know, who you, you're always confident in who you are, but when someone checks you, you're taking aback for a little bit.

And to speak to what you said earlier, Charlie, I think, I agree with you, it's, I'm kind of thrown off like, oh, she's this, this smart person who got accepted to Stanford Law School, like she's showing up to this interview unprepared. I really think we learn why a bit later in the film. And I think the answer is that for as serious as Andy is, doesn't take this seriously.

She thinks it's gonna be a cakewalk. So she

Hmm.

think she needs to prepare because as Miranda says later in [00:12:00] the film, in the iconic Ian scene, I believe, she says, oh, I get it. You think you're better than this, or, you know, you, this has no merit in your life. And I think that's where that character choice comes from.

To yes, Ann, that I think that she makes it very clear from the onset, especially to her boyfriend, the, the future Adrian from Entourage that this is a stepping stone for her. Like, this is, if I can, if I can do this for a year, I can get a job wherever I want. So this is very much so like a means to an end where everyone else who stepped into this role, it's been their lives.

And so it's very, very different place for her to be coming from into this situation.

I think one of my favorite things about this film in particular is if you watch this, I, one of my favorite things about television or film in general is watching how characters interact with one another and what their feelings for each other are, and how those feelings manifest in their actions and their words to one another. And I think watching this, despite [00:13:00] the different tastes, the different interests, the different worlds that these people all live in, there's a respect from character to character that's shown every single in,

every single interaction, whether it's between Nigel and Andy, whether it's between Emily and Miranda.

There's a respect that happens there. And I think at the beginning, Andy doesn't necessarily have that respect. And part of this film is watching the trajectory of Andy's brain go from, oh, this is nothing. This is unimportant. It's it's trivial work to having a respect for the industry. And this is part of her character growth, the industry and the people that work in that industry.

For better or for worse, she gains a tremendous respect for them.

I wanna bounce off of what you said because this. Movie. I love watching it, but it also gives me PTSD because I've been an assistant many times, and with being an assistant I in my twenties wasn't [00:14:00] a good assistant or as good of an assistant as I would be now in my thirties because when you're an assistant.

It's all about an attention to detail and being in love with all of the details within a day, which is why I would argue that the Devil Wears Prada is a work love story. Andy is falling in love with the work, falling in love with all of the micro details that go inside of it. And in that, between the lines of those details, she finds a sense of self.

And that brings me to the next character, who is the most glamorous hot ass mess? Emily. Emily played by Emily Blunt. The way that she's described in the script is so great. I wanna read it. It says, Andy turns and sees a taller, thinner, and amazingly more groomed clacker. This is Emily. She looks the [00:15:00] part of the sleek fashionista, but is propelled by a core of barely tamped down anxiety.

I want y'all to know that I have had so many Emily's in my career of being on a desk and working as an assistant, and I have love for each one of them, even though some were a lot more pleasant than some others. But what they all have in common is that. undergirding anxiety of I don't wanna get fired, I don't wanna get fired today, could be my last day.

I don't wanna get fired. And that is that manic energy that you feel running all throughout Emily Bon's performance. So I just wanted to ask both of you, like, have you either been an assistant or have you encountered assistants who just projected this anxiety onto you while they were doing their thing on a desk?

I'm so curious.

I spent a year as a games assistant at an [00:16:00] advertising agency when I lived in la. And it was like you work when you're working and there are no hours that are not working hours. And some people handled it well, and some people chain smoked and, and, and did not handle it well. And I, it's funny, that's all the stuff I could think about as you were talking about that.

And I, I think this movie is in a way, a love letter to all of those assistants that had to go through that life and also ruined the lives of any assistant that wasn't as on top of their details as Emily. And eventually Andy will be, I think, like I also was a bad assistant in the sense that I loved the work, but I didn't love the details of the day.

And that's exactly what you have to be as an assistant. And I have since hopefully I show this in the way that we run this

podcast, but become a lot more

would be, you would, you would be, an amazing assistant. I'm always blown away with like, I'm always like, damn, bitch. [00:17:00] Another calendar invite. But yeah, you're so, you're so on. It. You, you're so

Well. If 23-year-old Steve could see me now that he'd be very proud of 34-year-old Steve. But that took a long time. A long time for sure. But yeah,

I.

totally, I totally see the parallel. Billy, what about you?

That's growth. I love that. Before I jump into that, I di I wanna say in my notes here, I have in big, bold letters, Emily, blunt star, the comedic timing, the drama, like the way this character's written. You know, I don't know if you guys know this but just a little like tidbit about Emily Blunt landing this role.

She was not scheduled to audition for this role at all. She was just on the lot auditioning for another role that day and was spotted by a producer and asked to audition for this and clearly nailed it. You know, as you said,

it is our first major role.

Yeah, first major role. You know, coming from, it was her idea to make Emily English in the original version of this, in the book version.

And the, I believe the original script, don't quote me on that, Miranda is actually [00:18:00] British and Emily is not. And it was Emily Blunt's idea to swap them which I think is again brilliant because that it just adds so much to, to Emily's character. But at any rate, she's an absolute star. All of her, you know, costumes, her, her comedic timing, she's fantastic.

I think it's a shame that the Oscars is just now introducing a best casting category because

this cast in particular, you know, would have, would've absolutely taken an Oscar because like Meryl Streep, Anne Hathaway, so perfectly cast, Emily Blunt, Stanley Tucci, you know, all really well done.

So. To answer the actual question that you asked, I will say yes, I have definitely been, I work in the entertainment industry, which I'm sure everyone knows is a notoriously difficult industry for assistance. And I think I have, I've probably been both of those assistants for sure. I've been Andy and I've been Emily, and I won't lie to you.

I think by nature of who I am as a person, my Emily tends to [00:19:00] come out more when I respect and admire the boss I'm working for, sort of, regardless of the project. You know, I, it's kind of like that, that childhood thing of like, you wanna impress mom and dad when you're a kid, so it's like you want, you know, you wanna do well in school or whatever.

It's like I always have that kind of coursing through my veins when I'm working for a boss that I love. Because I wanna overperform for that person. I wanna anticipate their needs. I wanna be there for them. And I think. The way I watch the Devil Wars Prada, that's again, part of the journey. We see Andy go on.

She gets better, not only because she sees what it can do for her, but she starts to admire and respect Miranda. And

as that admiration and respect grows, she wants to perform not just for herself to prove to herself, she can do it, but to show Miranda, I think one of the best moments in this is when she drops that Harry Potter book on her desk and with just such smug politeness, like the sweetest, but so smug just, oh no, I, I made two copies.

They're [00:20:00] with the children on the train to grandma. I was like, it's a role, complete role reversal from that beginning scene where a Miranda is the smug one now, it's like, I know I did this right girl. Like, you can, I'm gonna gag you. You know? I love it.

To go off of that, that moment is earned because of the next moment that we get with this infamous, infamous ass Ilian sweater monologue. So this moment is so great because if Devil Wears Prada is a movie all about the details. The details in this monologue are just wonderful. And what I really like about it is that the scene immediately begins with Miranda calling Andy by the wrong name, and Andy coming in and correcting her and going like, oh no, actually, it's Andy.

And the look that Miranda gives her, her face just freezing, then smiling. She's like, [00:21:00] okay. I think in Meryl's head, Meryl's acting choice in that moment was like, okay, bitch, I'm gonna fuck with you today. All right, I see you. I see you.

wants to smoke.

She lost. She was like, okay, I see. I'm gonna put you in your place in front of all of these people, but I can't help but admire the way that Miranda did put her in her place.

Because I would say that if this movie were more, if it wasn't a screenplay with really fanciful dialogue, Miranda would've just been nasty and just. Saying really derogatory things to Andy, but because this is a elevated reality, a heightened version of the fashion world, the way that Miranda dressed Andy down was earned.

Was there a slight air of abuse to it? Yes. Maybe I'm biased because I found it entertaining and it's marrow fucking streep. [00:22:00] But the fact that she used it as a teaching moment and said, oh, actually what you don't see is this, this, this, this, this, this, this. If I were with a showrunner who I admired and they took me through the history of something in such an impeccable way.

Respect. I would respect the hell out of that and I would maybe be flustered in the moment, but I do think that this is the moment that was the turning point for Andy. And I also think that it was, the moment where the movie makes who side it is known, because I do think that this movie is on Miranda's side.

What do you both think of that monologue and of that moment? And if your boss were to say some shit like that to you, how would it make you feel?

I am gonna say, I'm gonna challenge you a bit here

because you said something I disagree with and something I agree with there.

I disagree with the acting choice that you think Meryl made. Now, this is all of course, [00:23:00] just us

Hmm.

here. However, I agree more with what you said later, that Miranda's using it as a teaching moment. To me,

what's going on in Miranda's head at this moment is not, I'm gonna put this bitch in her place. It's more. Mentor assistant moment. This is the, the thing that sucks about this is this particular mentor is taking on a JK Simmons and Whiplash, or a Lydia tar sort of personality where it's, they're, they're not doing it in the nicest way possible, but for Miranda, I don't think anyone else exists in that room at that moment, except her and Andy.

So she's looking at it like, you know, think of the worst teacher you've ever had. The one that's like, like somehow brilliant, but you just isn't meant to be a teacher. They're excellent at what they do. You know, I think of so

many professors I've had where it's like, you are so brilliant, you just know so much, but teaching isn't your game.

And that's how I

look at Miranda. She's teaching Andy in that moment, I think she's still [00:24:00] impressed by. By Andy's willingness to correct her and to, to like let her know, Hey, you know, it's not Emily. It's, it's not, it's, this is how you pronounce, this is my name. So I, I think it's less of a, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you whose boss and more of a, I'm gonna teach you why this is important, but good God, am I not a great teacher?

This is the turning point in the movie, I would say. I think that it's either the 15 minute mark, which would be the inciting incident or slightly after the 15 minute mark, which means that it is the moment that Andy starts seeing Miranda as somebody who is aspirational and starts to get why people create.

So much space for this creature to do her thing on the level that she does her thing. So I can, I can definitely see that. And the wonderful thing about Meryl's performance is that there's room to really read into what she's thinking because she is always [00:25:00] juggling so many things. And that monologue, like in the middle of the monologue, she even says something about, oh, I think we need more jackets here, or, no, no, no.

We need

A hundred

off the top there. So even while she's having this teaching moment, she is still working.

I can't agree more with the, the complexity of this character. I will die on this hill. I've been saying it for years. Ask anyone who's ever heard me talk about this film. This should have been Meryl Streep's third Oscar.

I, the Iron Lady is great, but I almost feel like the Iron Lady was a retroactive Oscar.

This film should have been Meryl Streep's third Oscar. The reason, you know, when you look back at it is, I don't know, you know, they put her, the studio, put her in the lead actress category. Now despite the Devil Wears Prada being the title, and Miranda being the Devil, this isn't Miranda's movie, it isn't.

We follow, you know, Andy is the one in every single scene. We have several scenes throughout the movie where Miranda's not present. We are seeing the scene [00:26:00] through, or the, the film through Andy's eyes, which is why I think you know, Charlie, it's so easy for us to speculate more on what, what's going on in Miranda's head.

'cause that's what we're supposed to do is speculate on that based on us, the audience being Andy it should, the only, so they put her in the lead actress category. So that year she was up against. Helen Miran, she was up against Judy Dench, just like Masters of the Craft. And I, you know, Helen Miran won for the Queen that year.

Judy Dench was nominated for notes on a scandal, which if you haven't seen, is also a chef's kiss of a film. And for any actors out there, if you wanna, if you're studying acting, watching Judy Dench and Kate Blanche go, toe to toe is a masterclass, is is not even, it's an understatement. However, it's funny because he, Helen Miran was also considered for the role of Miranda Priestly.

Obviously passed and took on the Queen, and that's who won best actress that year. It was a very tough year in general though, because even if Miranda had been in [00:27:00] the supporting actress category, Jennifer Hudson won for Dream Girls that year, which is also a

hugely deserved win. So

I think. Meryl got a really tough year to be nominated, but this should have been an, it's, it's an Oscar worthy role.

She was incredible in this from start to

She was incredible. I would even say of all three of the performances that you just mentioned, Meryl wins though, because I don't see either of those, those other two performances. While fantastic being spoken about on this level, because I think Miranda Priestly represents something and she made, she gave us just enough access to Miranda's internal world.

That she wasn't a villain. I don't consider this character a villain. And as we break into the first act, turning point, we're gonna get more into why. the surreal and sweater moment happened. So Andy respects Miranda and this moment, [00:28:00] God, this moment made my heart drop to the floor. 'cause I have a story to tell you.

Andy has to get Miranda, a private jet in the middle of this huge storm while she's out to dinner with her dad and she's on the phone with her boss. She's jumping back into the wrestling with her dad. She's trying to figure it out. Miranda's getting mad at her and snapping over the phone. Oh man, I've been a celebrity assistant before.

Being an exec, an executive assistant at least. Then your work, you could leave at the office to an extent. But being a personal assistant to both the actor and the pop star that I wear personal assistants to Jesus Christ, I never wanna relive those experiences again. Because when you're an assistant, you have your phone and you have a work phone.

And I remember when I was in New York City visiting once I crashed at a friend's place and I [00:29:00] woke up in a cold sweat at two in the morning because there was a snowstorm and I forgot the work phone across town. And my heart was pounding. I was like, what if he needs something? So did I get my ass in that snowstorm and try to find a cab and did I succeed and finding a cab?

Nope. I took the train and I went and I grabbed that work phone. There were no missed calls, but that's the level of paranoid that I was as a assistant. So when I tell you that I felt felt for Andy in the scene, I am not kidding.

I think.

a part that we can identify with too, that maybe we extrapolate from this or that you were extrapolating from your story about leaving your phone across town is maybe the three of us have all experienced the anxiety that at least maybe this is an experience for me that like when I'm in a work situation or a supervisor situation that I don't like

Every single time

my

Slack notification or my phone goes,

off,

I feel [00:30:00] anxiety without even looking at it.

a hundred percent.

Yeah. So that sort of feeling

I had a previous season at a job that I, I'm not gonna say that second part 'cause it's not

even worth cutting out and

it,

it was the sort of

situation where I.

we were always on and we always started at 5:00 AM so even, And I was the lone supervisor. So even when

I wasn't quote unquote on

for the first month or so, more than that, I'm waking up at 2, 3,

4 am

out of pure anxiety and.

then trying to like also wake up and not immediately look at my phone and hope that there are no SOS emergency text messages either from the people that are working for me or the people that were working above me.

It was a very awkward situation. I'm very glad to not be doing it anymore, but I like,

I think that

like anxiety of communication and how it can bleed into your real life as well is something that I think a lot of us can identify through not even [00:31:00] unhealthy work relationships. Just sometimes when it's an overwhelming work relationship or, or maybe one that doesn't satisfy you all the way and you're starting to get sick of, I, I think we find ourselves in that anxiety place a lot.

Maybe not to this extreme.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Which brings us to what I think is the biggest turning point after Andy hits this moment. She feels like Miranda just wants her to fail and that she is doing a horrible job and Miranda's being mean to her for the sake of being mean to her and Nigel to his credit, because we all need a Nigel.

I've had a Nigel at every shitty assistant job I've had. And I'm still friends with all of them. They were the people whose offices I went to when I just needed to cry or just sit on the floor and crawl into a ball or take a moment or just be left alone to eat lunch in their office when [00:32:00] they're on vacation.

These are angels. We all need a Nigel, but I really appreciate that he pushes back and challenges Andy to really find the strength within herself to do this job at another level. I think that isn't something he would've said to her if he didn't think she was capable of it, because on one hand, I appreciate that he encouraged her to really go for it.

But at the same time, I do think that our society. Has a problem with demonizing quitting. I think that if something isn't for you, it is perfectly fine to quit because if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit. But the fact that it wasn't in her nature to quit and it just lit a fire within her says a lot about her character.

And it says a lot about this fierce motherfucking vogue montage that we get when [00:33:00] she does decide to step up to the plate. I can't tell you how many times I have not watched Devil Worst Prada, the whole movie. I've just pulled up this montage on YouTube while I was cooking or cleaning in or something and just watched it.

I love this part of the movie. I think that it's one of my, it's probably right up there with the pretty woman montage of Vivian going into all of the stores that turned her away because she was dressed like a sex worker before. I love it so much. I wish that I could gay gasp. Billy Steve, what are your thoughts on this Vogue montage and just how fucking delightful it is,

I have three things to say in response to everything that you just said because you

brought up things that are all in my notes. Number one, Nigel Incredible. Stanley Tucci remarkable. We love Stanley Tucci. Put Stanley Tucci in everything. Put him on my cereal boxes, put him in every TV show. This man can do no wrong for me.

You [00:34:00] know, it's never explicitly stated that Nigel is gay, but if there is one straight actor that I give a pass to play gay, it's Stanley Tucci.

Oh yeah, yeah. Also, so handsome. So Han like, oh,

Like a Fine delicious wine. Absolutely. So handsome. Second to the Ian monologue. I think Nigel's monologue here that propels us into act two, where, so, you know, where he says so many, this place, these halls where so many women die, would die to work.

You only dane to work. That monologue is incredible. The delivery of it, the, the, the same thing. You can see the wheels turning, but you never see Stanley Tucci working hard. It's, it's effortless for him for this character. And we learned so much about, why he's at runway and what his dreams are.

And we learned so much about this character in this, in this short monologue. Stanley Tucci was deserved, an Oscar nom that year as well. I think that monologue is the second best one in the film. And as I, as I mentioned, the reason, you know, the iconic are those the Chanel boots.

The only reason we ever get that is [00:35:00] because of Nigel's pep talk, monologue, a scene or two before that,

where he's in that room with her. You know, without that pep talk, we don't get propelled into act two. 'cause that's what finally gets Andy to get her shit together and say, okay, I'm gonna do this and make the con.

She makes a choice at that point. I'm going to do this and I'm gonna do this. Well, prior to that, she didn't take it seriously. This is the monologue that gets her to take it seriously, and that gives us the rest of the film. So, kudos to the writers and kudos to Stanley Tucci for an incredible, you know, interpretation of that. the next thing I'm gonna say is the Vogue Montage. Two things. Number one, the music supervisor on this deserves I don't know, unlimited sexual favors for the rest of their life because the music supervisor on this is Madonna's jump in the beginning when they're all going, when the runway girls are all going to work in the New York.

And that vogue scene to this, the suddenly I see opening up every song you know, is, is incredible. So the music supervisor on the [00:36:00] show, absolutely Rent was due and they did just as much as the costume supervisor. And the last thing I'm gonna mention is funny because that you even brought this up.

You mentioned the Pretty Woman Montage. I love Pretty Woman. I think it's really one of the first modern rom-coms that paved the way for the Devil Wears Prada. You know, when I say modern rom-com, I mean, you know, it's different from the, Roman Holiday and things like that.

It's, it's one of the first modern ones and I see a lot of parallels between Pretty Woman and this movie. How they were critically received, how they were, you know, culturally received. You know, I love, love, love, love when a lighthearted soft movie gets Oscar Buzz Pretty woman did that. The Devil Wears Prada did that.

There are very few bridesmaids did that. There are very few films that squeak through the cracks that are of the, that caliber that make it to the Oscar stage. 'cause most of them are like the Oppenheimers and the theory of everything, the heavy dramas. And something I noticed when [00:37:00] watching Devil Wears Prada this past time is there's a scene where Andy is wearing a brown. Shirt with white polka dots and it's got a belt on it. And if you remember, one of my favorite outfits that Julia Roberts wears in Pretty Woman is when they go to play polo, she has a brown dress on with white polka dots and it's

Yes.

middle. And I think the costume designer on the Double Wears Prada is Patricia Field, who, for anyone who doesn't know, is absolutely iconic in the industry, both in the fashion industry as well as the entertainment industry.

She was this costume supervisor on Sex and the City, their full run, Emily in Paris. And on this film as well, pat Field does everything with intention. She's not just throwing clothes on these people, every necklace, every pair of glasses, every ring, belt, socks, whatever is being thought of and sourced with intention.

So for me, I. I don't think Pat Field is dressing Anne Hathaway's character in this brown with white polka dots and belted look without the intention of drawing a parallel to Pretty [00:38:00] Woman. Another film about a woman who starts the film in one place and ends the film in a completely different place and goes through this transition of being like a, you know, sex worker at the beginning of the film hitting this high point as a, you know, polished woman who is with a businessman, realizing something and then not fully returning back to who she was at the beginning, but finding a happy medium at the end.

And that's what Andy does here too. She doesn't return to that sloppy frizzy Andy at the beginning when we see her at the end, she's got a much more. Paired down, look from the runway

girls, just a simple leather jacket and

jeans yet, but it's cleaner. It's put together. And that's the same trajectory, Julia Roberts goes on in Pretty Woman.

So I love that you drew that parallel because it exists, it's real, and I think it was fully intentional for us to draw that parallel.

it starts off in a muted way after the Ilian monologue before. The monologue that Nigel gives her, her clothes become a bit more fitted and she starts to,

[00:39:00] so the seeds are planted wardrobe wise because the jump from her job interview outfit to the outfit to my favorite outfit of hers in the movie, which is the Grecian looking Calvin Klein dress that she wears during the Harry Potter book

Love.

that she has to do.

Oh my God, eat. She was eating and left no crumbs with that outfit.

Let me be

the, to go on record here as officially, 'cause I want this archived somewhere for the rest of my life so that it's been said by me. I think Anne Hathaway, maybe I'm crazy. I think Anne Hathaway is one of the fashion girls of our generation. There are only a handful of public figures that the phrase I use is they wear the clothes, the clothes don't wear them. There's only a handful of them. It's really, it's Lady Gaga, it's Rihanna, it's Zendaya, and it's Anne Hathaway from me. Those four can wear anything from [00:40:00] any designer and every single time they are wearing the outfit. A lot of other celebrities, we see them on the red carpet, we see them, you know, in magazines and the clothes are overwhelming.

They're eating them up and we're focused on the clothes. Anne Hathaway is one of those Really just stripped

Classic beauties.

anything And she is the one wearing it. Her stylist again, you kudos to, you rent is due. You're doing well. You're doing your job damn well. And that goes for Andy in

this movie

I love

in that.

Grecian outfit in all of 'em.

All of them. All of them, they all tell a story, and I wanna start getting into Andy's friends here, because the friends are such a point of contention in the fandom of The Devil Wears Prada, she starts to do well at work and she comes in the beginning of Act two, giving her friends these expensive bags and these gifts that Miranda didn't want.

So she handed them off to them so her boyfriend doesn't look too pleased. Her friends are goo go gaga over the gifts, but everyone [00:41:00] seems a little taken aback by this new cleaner. More polished, Andy. So I wanna ask you both a question that has been hotly debate debated for decades are Andy's friends assholes for how they take her phone and toss it around when she has an important work call coming in.

I just think they don't get it. I don't think they're necessarily assholes. I just think they had no idea and that's why they looked so surprised when she was so butt hurt about it. The only person I think is truly an asshole is her boyfriend,

Hmm.

and it actually makes no sense that she stayed with him for as long as she did or that she ends up with him to me.

But he just, he just,

he, he just

shows Big red flag.

jealous dude, energy. This is coming from someone who was big red flag, jealous dude energy in his twenties. So

I

maybe I

just saw

too much of myself.

I mean, I'm gonna quickly chime in and just say that my reasons for not hating [00:42:00] Nate are very superficial. That's just because I find the actor to be ridiculously godawful sexy.

I feel like I upset Billy. I need to hear

Yeah. Billy, what's

I'm gonna jump in here. I think, I feel like this is the appropriate time for this. I'm gonna jump in because couple things. Number one, yes, Adrian Grier, very sexy. I'm, I'm a sucker for a guy with curls, so you, you've got me, Adrian Grier, number one. Number two, I don't think Andy's friends are assholes for the reason that I think, I think they know how intense her job is. I don't think they realize that Andy has made the shift in her mind yet that she cares. I think they are aware that that Miranda is a nightmare. They, they know how intense it is, but at this particular moment, I don't think they have fully grasp that in Andy's mind that little switch has flipped and she actually cares a little bit more now. So when they do it, it's playful and it's fun, but they think they're doing it with the quote unquote old Andy. They don't [00:43:00] realize because it hasn't been shown to them yet that they're doing it with the new Andy. And that's where I think the the struggle lies. Now to jump into Nate, speaking of things that have been hotly debated for years, I have seen many and many and many people, articles, online tweets, et cetera, hating Nate.

They just think Nate is the

worst. Buzzfeed, Yes.

Steve, I mean. People really agree with you. He is. They, it's just a jealous he doesn't get it. He's the worst. I am going to ride for Nate. Nate. This, I said that there was a hill I would die on was Meryl's Oscar. This is the hill I will die on. Nate is not the villain.

Nate is nowhere near the villain. There are multiple times throughout this where Nate exhibits what a good boyfriend he is. He is playful, he's caring. He's a good listener. He, he takes in all of Andy's frustrations and he makes her grilled cheeses and, and takes care of her. There's some, some lines he's, you know, he's cheering her on at every, every moment [00:44:00] and it's little things where like, Anne Hathaway makes a, says a line like, I'm the same Andy, just better clothes.

And Nate responds with, I like the old clothes. That's

Aw.

That's not him being an asshole. That's, to me, that's him saying like, you don't need to change. You're, you are great the way you are. Stop letting the pressure of this industry change who you are as a person and something, you know, obviously the character's not going to say that they're, we're gonna have to read the subtext of it.

But him with such a simple line, like, I like the old clothes, wasn't trying to be like, ah, I don't like this new Andy. It's just trying to be like, remember who you are. You were, you were great the way you are. You were smart. You know, I liked you a lot. when they're fighting in the street, I think, I think it's the scene in the street.

They're fighting about something and, he is humble. He says, you know, Andy, I don't, I don't, I make port wine reductions all day. I'm not exactly in the Peace Corps. Like

he ex like, he is letting her know like, Hey, I'm not judging you. This is what I do as a living and you know, I'm not judging what you do as a living.

I just want you to do it with [00:45:00] integrity and I want you to be you. I think 100% Nate is. Is a godsend. I'm glad they quote unquote end up together at the end. It's kind of left a little bit on the edge. I think they end up together. But I'm thrilled that they end up together. I think, I think Nate is great for her and I think he appreciates her for who she is. And because of the way Nate is written, we tend to think he's in the villain category. But I disagree. I think the, the real villain of this is Christian Thompson, which we can get into in a little bit. That's the

Oh yeah, will. Yeah.

our hate at.

yeah. We'll, we'll get there. We'll get there, we'll get there

I agree with everything you said Really quickly before we move on to Christian. I,

I,

think

I.

take a lot of how he's reacting to it and this is how I took it, not how I see it, as it as less. I see you for who you are and you should still have integrity in what you're doing and more so of the jealous, like I can feel you slipping away with every step you take in this [00:46:00] direction from me.

I.

Which is the more like jealous straight man that I would've been at his age. I think like I, I think I put myself into his shoes a lot through this because I was like, how would I have acted as a 23-year-old when my like girlfriend I've been with since college suddenly starts changing in all of these very dramatic ways and starts quote unquote, looking better and interacting with all of these beautiful people like Christian.

And I think we've probably danced around it enough. So Charlie, why don't you tell us about that fucking dirt bag.

Yeah, so what's interesting, the call that Andy was getting was for her to run an errand for Miranda that brings her into the orbit of one Christian Thompson, who is a fellow writer. So they have a lot in common. takes an immediate interest in her. They're in a setting with a lot of people who are socialites.

It's very different. Andy at this point, is doing really well at her job and she likes that somebody is not just [00:47:00] treating her like an assistant, but taking an interest in what her interests are. Before we dig into why Christian is a Dirtbag, because I completely agree, he is, I want to jump into Andy's head and guess what she was thinking in that moment.

I get her attraction to him. I definitely get her attraction and her interest in him, especially coming off the heels of a scene where her friend circle doesn't understand again that she's the new and, and that she's taking her career seriously. I think that deep down they don't know that what she really wants to do after this is become a prolific writer and really step into that world.

So them throwing the phone around to her, kind of symbolize them, kind of tampering with the very carefully laid plan that she has in her head to move up to the next thing. So to then go to a work event where Christian is asking her about her writing is taking an interest in that side of her. I [00:48:00] think it's refreshing for somebody to see her that way.

It isn't, ah, and I don't think that it's purely sexual or maybe it doesn't even start sexual, it's just he intrigues her. He is somebody who in that world is a different caliber of person who she is interacting with outside of the office. And I think that he is the person who pushes it to be sexual.

I don't think that that's in Andy's mind. In Andy's mind, I think she thinks, oh, this is a contact. Of course, he's objectively attractive, but this is somebody who's paying mind to my interest. So I don't think that Andy was ever the aggressor in this situation in spite of having an interest in just him as a person.

But I think that he picked up on that spark and he ran with it until he just became a complete douche bag. What do you both think?

I think [00:49:00] that you can't discount how juxtaposing walking away from something that you thought was where your safe place was, feeling suddenly very put out by it, and immediately walking into a warm place where the, the subject in front of you seems very genuinely interested and supportive in that exact same thing. Like that night and day is so huge. I can say from personal experience where you walk away from a situation where you feel like you're not being seen for what you want and who you are, and then immediately walking into a situation where the grass feels like the greenest shade of green that you've ever stepped on.

I, I

think That.

and like when you're desperate for that, I think that can like really affect how you see somebody in front of you, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it

does. I think, you know, as you both kind of mentioned in one way or another, I think it's, you know, the script is really well done. The script is laid out in a really smart way, and to have [00:50:00] those two scenes back to back is exactly what, I would've wanted to do as a writer, what any writer should have done so that you can see. Andy's two worlds, you know, her two quote unquote personal life worlds back to back in one. She's not being respected. She is, you know, kind of the butt of a joke and she's not being appreciated for the hard work she's putting in. And then to immediately flip that and see her with someone who is respected and admired in her industry, giving her that same sort of respect and admiration and being impressed by her is, is a lot.

I agree with you both too. I don't think it's sexual for Andy at all. I think she's flattered and she's a 22-year-old fresh out of college or grad school who is being, you know, praised by someone who is in his mid thirties

and who she respects and who is also handsome. You know, I think she's flattered, but I don't think there's, at this point even a, potential for. For, you know, [00:51:00] sexual relationship in her mind. I could be wrong though.

No, I agree. I mean, like he definitely ran with whatever the dynamic is in this situation after she came to him for that favor, which by the way, I wanna get into our next plot point,

after that scene, we get to two interesting points. The first point is that Miranda now getting used to Andy being on top of her shit, actually calls Andy by her real name. She says, oh, and Andy, I'd like you to drop off the book.

So I think that that is a very great moment in the film of showing Miranda coming around to just how hyper competent Andy is and giving her this task that bleeds into her personal life of her coming to Miranda's home and then showing how Andy [00:52:00] completely just, I don't

Fumbles the bag.

yet fumbles

the back. She absolutely fumbles the back. She should not have gone upstairs. She should not have done that. I think

Never listen to little girls

ever.

never listen to little girls, but also I felt for Andy in that moment because the way that Anne Hathaway acted, she was overthinking.

That was a mistake from overthinking. If she would've kept it simple, even if the book was on the wrong table, Miranda, she's fucking busy. You think that she's gonna make a, she might give like a little side, she might give, like she might give side eye of like, oh, I'm at this table, not this table. You

she didn't want to quit.

Yeah. I think that would've been the worst that Miranda would've done if it was on the wrong table, but to go upstairs. And this is Andy's luck. [00:53:00] For her to go upstairs at the particular moment that she went upstairs at, I would've been crawling out of my fucking skin at one point. I mean, the worst that I've done in a situation like this is when I was an estate manager and I had permission, permission to go upstairs all throughout the house, and I accidentally walked in on one of my bosses in the shower, but then immediately walked out.

It was, it was a dude and I think his back was turned. And I think that he maybe knew that I didn't know that he was gonna be showering at that point. It wasn't scandalous. Like we laughed about it. I was like, oh shit. I'm sorry dude. He is like, don't worry about it, it's fine. But the difference is that I was working inside of the home. Not visiting the home to drop off a book. So I was moving through it every day. But to go upstairs inside of a house that you've [00:54:00] never been into, to drop off that book, like what do you think of that moment, Steve and Billy, and what would you have done to try and correct it?

I mean, personally, when you're an assistant, a personal assistant, you are around someone constantly. You become the right hand person, and The lines between personal life, professional life get blurred because you are so much a part of their everyday operation. for Andy, she's riding a high in this moment of being like, oh, I'm finally trusted enough to bring the book myself. And I think that high sort of probably caused her to lose her judgment a little bit, because I'm with you. My question is like, Andy, you are at this point, you're nailing it. What's the bigger mistake? Leaving it on the wrong table, five feet away from the other one, or walking up the stairs, you know, like,

Right,

you, you've gotta know better.

So, like, clearly the judgment in that moment was lapsing. And I think the only reason I can give is because she was doing so well [00:55:00] that she like, lost the focus and started overthinking as

right.

you know, and the beautiful thing about Anne Hathaway is. As an actress, everything you need to know is on her face.

She's got those big eyes and she lets you know when she's overthinking, when she wants us to know she's overthinking. And, and then when she doesn't want us to know, she's overthinking, she turns it off. She's a remarkable actress in that, in that regard. You know, just to give her her, her flowers 'cause she deserves 'em.

you Do feel the anxiety of that scene for sure. And it's sort of like that moment in the horror movie where you're screaming at the television to not go into that room. Why would you go into that room? What a terrible decision.

you're sort of screaming at Anne to just like, Hey, put the book down, turn around, walk outta the fucking house. Like, nothing will be wrong if you just turn around and walk out and then every step,

she takes up the stairs, you're being like,

no.

don't do it.

Yep. You got those little shining twins, like,

Yeah.

take the book.

Come, and play with

us Forever.

And Billy, I want to, yes, and or [00:56:00] what we said earlier about my assumption of what Miranda was thinking of, oh, I'm gonna fuck with her. I think that I assumed that that moment happened earlier than it actually did. You were right. It didn't happen with the Ceilia monologue. I think it happened with the Harry Potter manuscript.

'cause that

I can agree with.

we can't argue that that was her trying to bend Andy into a fucking pretzel that

She's not trying to teach her anything there. Yeah. That's not a teaching moment. That is her getting revenge. She's, I didn't, I didn't like what you did, and now I'm gonna show you, you're,

you're gonna get your penance.

And I think it's the only time she really goes to that level with her like that in the movie one because she's too busy. So she has too much going on to really hone in and be that menacing with an assistant. But I think the human side of it is that she knows her marriage is about to end.

And the [00:57:00] fact that Andy got a window into this weakness of hers makes her deeply uncomfortable. So now she

Ding. Ding, ding,

Andy feel uncomfortable. Like, oh, you know that my marriage is on the rocks. Fuck you get my Starbucks. Get my steak. Wait, what's this doing here? I don't want that steak. Oh, go over here.

Where's the piece of paper I had in my hand three days ago? Oh. And if you don't get

That's my favorite line in the movie.

Yeah. I love

that's my favorite. She said, where's that piece of paper I had in my hand yesterday morning. Okay. Like, but I will say. Ding, ding, ding to that. I agree this, and it's really fascinating to watch how Miranda, as a character responds to work related issues with Andy versus when Andy sees her in her personal life and the issues there.

And that's what makes the character so interesting. It's not just a mean boss, it's a really complex character with a lot going on in professional and personal lives. When Andy fucks up at work or you [00:58:00] know, slip, she said, that's when it becomes a teaching moment. That's when you know, it might seem like she's ice cold and you know, could melt, melt the skin off her face, as Andy says.

But that's her teaching. When Andy fucks up and it involves Miranda's personal life and she hears and sees something she's not supposed to exactly the word, the phrase you used, it says, we see Miranda be a human. She reverts to that pettiness the way we all would where she's, she's embarrassed, so now she's got to get the upper hand again.

And that only comes up when we see. Andy encroaching into Miranda's personal life. You know, I love those moments where Miranda's without makeup and in tears after her divorce and things like that, because that is, that's what makes Miranda complex and interesting. Not just that she's a powerful business woman. So I love, I love that you brought that up.

Yeah, it's so true. It's so interesting. But to yes. And that the fact that Andy succeeds, because Miranda was, she was gonna fire her that day. She was gonna fire her, but she wanted to see her flail [00:59:00] in the wind before she fired her, just for the smug satisfaction of, gotcha, bitch. Oh yeah, you're gonna walk upstairs.

I'm gonna make you run. You were gonna have pit stains in your couture by the end of the day, because I'm gonna run you that fucking ragged. I think that that is what Miranda was going for, but Andy showing her grit and actually doing it. And actually thinking ahead to get the twins copies and to have an extra copy, just to have on file.

Miranda at that point was okay. Respect,

I mean, this is a perfect example. I used the phrase before Miranda was gagged, and I think that first meeting with Miranda and Andy, where Andy speaks up for herself and says, you know, and Miranda's taken aback and then hires her. That's just foreshadowing for this.

It's showing us that, Andy has the power to surprise Miranda. And that's, I think what gets her this job in the first place and keeps this job for her is that Miranda is not [01:00:00] used to being surprised by

people professionally in work. Nothing. Nothing catches Miranda off guard because she is.

On guard always, and Andy is the exception.

Andy can repeatedly catch Miranda off guard throughout the film, and that is what keeps her going as long as she does. And that's what earns her the quote unquote positive recommendation. Later in the film,

I completely agree. And I would also, this is slightly jumping ahead, I would say, because they were able to work through this bump in the road with Andy coming out and proving that she could rise to the occasion is why I, Miranda treats her differently when she walks in on Miranda with no makeup

Mm-hmm.

actually starts talking about, oh, so you know, he's leaving me.

Like, I think that this was the perfect setup. To pay that off in act three of the film before we hit the climax. we'll talk more about that when we get there. After Andy [01:01:00] starts doing really well at work, she pretty much starts to rise above Amie as the dominant assistant

to the point where Miranda acts both of them, to come to a very important event where they both have to memorize the names and faces of people two binders and whisper in Miranda's ear who's approaching what the relationship is and Andy succeeds.

Whereas Emily Flops and I have a theory as to why Andy succeeds in this world as an assistant, whereas Emily kind of. Struggles a little bit. I think because Emily reveres the magazine and the work so much that she's willing to sacrifice her sense of self. Emily doesn't have touch with her instincts the way that Andy does, because Andy knows that this isn't it for her.

For Emily, this is it to the point where she would [01:02:00] die for runway and she would just let Miranda call her the wrong name. She would never call her out. Whereas Andy does have those moments of, no, this is who I am. I think that strong sense of self gives Andy the mental bandwidth and just the self-awareness to be able to pull that name out of her hat.

Whereas Emily puts so much pressure on herself because it's this or nothing. I don't think she sees a future for herself outside of runway, and I've known assistants like that. Like what are your views on Emily as a character like. What do you think's going on in her head?

At this particular time, this is, you know, when, Emily is sick, so I think. the writers probably gave her this little flu to try and give us a reason to believe that she would forget the name,

to give obviously Andy an excuse to remember the name and make Andy shine in that moment. I don't know. You know, I haven't really thought about this and I, it's interesting. I'd love to think about it more. I don't know that necessarily agree with the idea that Emily doesn't see anything else for [01:03:00] herself after this. I think the natural assumption is that Emily sees herself becoming like Miranda someday, but I also

mm.

that's true. You know, I think there is certainly a, a contentedness to where she is being Miranda's first assistant, but maybe I just wanna believe that the character wants more. I don't know. That's a really fascinating thing. I. Just really adore that character. Every line that comes out of her mouth makes me laugh.

Don't let her see this. It's foul and then throws her briefcase across the room is like hysterical. But yeah, you know, I've definitely known some Emily's who are career assistants. I just don't know that this Emily is one yet. It's a good

thing to think

Very fair, very fair answer. Okay, moving on to the next beat. now that Andy, Is again, proving herself. We have the Do or die moment where Miranda invites her back into her home and says, Hey, by the way, I'm taking you to Paris. I'm not taking Emily to Paris, even though it's everything she [01:04:00] wants.

And if you don't accept this offer, I'm gonna assume that you're not serious about runway or your future at any other publication. If we were Andy and we had to make this decision, would we have thrown Emily under the bus? What would we have done in this moment if posed

gonna pretend like I wouldn't.

Yeah.

even pretend like I wouldn't at all.

I want so badly to say that I wouldn't and for it to be true. But the reality is I think, you know, in the same situation, in the same circumstances, I would do it.

Yeah, because you have no choice. You're backed against the corner.

This is the one scene in the film that I really don't love Miranda in because it feels threatening, and up until now, Miranda has never felt threatening. She's been intimidating, but intimidating and threatening, I think are two very different things.

decides to throw Emily under the bus. She's going to Paris and in making this decision to go to Paris [01:05:00] she takes a break from her relationship with Nate, which to be honest, every time I watch film or a TV show where characters go on a break in their relationship, I kind of call bullshit a little bit.

' cause never in my adult life have I taken a break from a relationship, like a legit relationship. I've either just broken up or we were in a situationship that wasn't defined. That kind of fizzled out. So I find the whole concept of going on a break in a relationship, and it could just be me. It could just be me and my own life experience.

'cause maybe. One or both of you, or neither one of you have experienced that and it's all three of us, but I just, I find that we're on a break specifically with how it's in the public consciousness because of Ross and Rachel from friends to be so contrived and so fake to the point where when it shows up in anything, I just wanna roll my [01:06:00] eyes.

It's like, just be honest. You're gonna go on a break so that one or both of y'all can fuck somebody else. Then you can get back together or break up. It just feels very forced to me. I don't know if it feels like that for y'all,

We constantly overlook the fact that Ross tries to use the fact that they were on a break as an excuse for the fact that he just literally fucked

somebody else because he got drunk and was sad.

Like I, I do think that it's a made up concept by that show that people have glommed onto so they could get away with. Doing what they want and like using semantics as a way to get away with it. I personally have, I have had A breakup.

and then gotten back together with somebody, but the concept of a break feels dubious to me.

the terminology is. It's, it's essential. You know, going on a break is, I mean, at least to me breaking up, it's the terminology that's different. And I think that terminology is easier for people to swallow than saying, let's break up. Breakup feels so final. So I think in this moment, you know, I fully believe neither Andy nor [01:07:00] Nate has any intention of going to fuck anyone else.

Right.

however, I think the terminology they use is just less fatal. And also, let's remember going back to the Nate villain thing. Let's remember that Andy is the one who suggests the break, not Nate. Nate is a ride or die

This is true.

has, no

Oh, good

She suggests the

This is true.

so yeah. so

I think it's all, as we said, like a semantics thing.

So moving on. We're in Paris. It's gorgeous. We're loving it. My favorite scene in the movie, and I think a lot of people's favorite scene is when Andy goes to brief Miranda on what's gonna be happening the next day. And she stumbles upon Miranda without makeup, without any of the armor on in a bathrobe.

Just, just decompressing and really sad. And at rock bottom because of the end of her marriage. I love this scene because when Anne Hathaway talks about it, she says, I feel that I didn't really have to act in that [01:08:00] scene. All I had to do was show up and listen and watch Meryl do her thing. And all of my expressions and reactions were genuine because I was watching her be so in this character that I was there with her.

So it was, it wasn't an easy day at work for her. She said, she just said that it was. Meryl rubbing off on her, being that into the character that she had no trouble believing this moment. So both of you, when it comes to this moment, why do you think that Miranda felt that comfortable opening up to Andy about that point in her life?

Would she have done that with Nigel? Would she have done that with anybody? Do you think that it was because of who Andy is specifically? What are your thoughts?

I actually, I disagree that she's decompressing. I think Andy catches her in a weak moment and she decides to go, fuck it.

But I don't, I thought,

that the turn into I'm now going to let you

into my personal life, [01:09:00] was one that

I don't,

think that Andy,

like, I,

don't know why

I, at that point, it would still feel more to her character to be,

like, get the fuck out,

in my opinion.

I think for me watching Miranda there. We talked about the difference between her personal life and her professional life. I think the thing is Miranda has people that are close to her, Emily, Nigel, James Holt. There are people who are close to her, but they all admire and respect her and, and treat her like this goddess woman. Andy does that. But Andy has established on several different occasions with Miranda that she isn't doing any of this because she worships Miranda. She's doing it because she admires her and respects her and sees her grind. And at this point, I really think this is, Miranda has nobody, Miranda has nobody that she

can go to with this. She doesn't have Steven anymore. You know, they're divorcing. She, her girls are too [01:10:00] young. she doesn't have friends really, because her life is runway. And if Emily were in that room, she wouldn't have spoken like that to Emily If Nigel were there, I don't think she would have opened up like that to Nigel.

Mm.

opened up to Andy like that because Andy's all she has, it's the closest person she has and she trusts Andy At this point. I'm thinking more now about what you said, Steven, about how it's like not necessarily earned, and I definitely wanna think about that more. But I will say I love that it's there and I know it was Meryl's idea to go without makeup and to be that vulnerable.

And I'm glad she did because it really does give you another view into Miranda. But I really think it's a moment where she needs to let some. Tension out, and let's call a spade a spade. I don't think Miranda is has a weekly standing therapy appointment, so she's really got nobody to let this out to.

True.

you know, Andy takes that card. She's everything all in one and the control on Meryl's part, but really on Miranda's part that she's able to flip from her [01:11:00] personal distress right into business. It's almost like a, like she was in a haze, not, you know, she had to let it out, but as soon as it was out, it was, all right, we need to figure out what to do with Snoop Dogg because he's barely speaking to, and Donatella is barely speaking to anybody.

She feels in her heart and in her head, alright, I got it out. We're done crying about this right back to business. And she knows she can control Andy in that way, you know? So I think that's why she

feels comfortable enough being vulnerable with her

Okay. Yeah. All right. I wanna save the point that I was gonna make for later because I think that there is also a hint that she might've felt a little embarrassed about that moment and how she treats Andy when Andy tries to warn her about it. But The morning after Andy has sex with Christian, she does that and she sees the mockup for what runway's gonna look like with Donatella as the head of the magazine, and she's immediately defensive.

I would've been the same way in Andy's [01:12:00] position by nature of just who I am, and after grinding and working to earn her respect and also earn the access into her personal life that Andy got. So she rushes, tries to tell. Miranda tries to tell Miranda. Miranda shuts her down. Miranda's not available.

There's this moment where Miranda obviously clearly knows what Andy's trying to do, and she says, oh, do I smell that? Billy, what was the flower? There was a particular flower that she smelled,

do I

smell freezes? I better

not smell freezes

I'm gonna be very, very disappointed. And I think that was her very subtle, subtle way of maybe putting Andy in her place because she did reveal too much.

Not super malicious. It was just more like a I see you, I see what you're doing. You think that we have like a thing, but like, go do your job. I'll be fine. I can take care of myself. I'm not some helpless woman. [01:13:00] I think that that's what that moment was. The moment where she throws Nigel under the bus to save her position at runway, then later reveals what she did to Andy.

And the car ride makes me want to retroactively take back something that I thought 10 minutes ago when you, Billy were saying that if Nigel were in the room, she would've opened up to him. I agree with you now in the moment. I didn't, I was like, I think she would open up to Nigel, but Nigel is one of the few people that have really consistently impressed her and kept up with her at work.

But I think that their relationship is purely at work and also from a logistical standpoint, she wouldn't have opened up to him because she knew that she was about to betray him, so that shit wouldn't fly. She's like, oh, I know what I'm about to do, so I'm just gonna keep some distance. But maybe I'll make it up to you later.

Maybe I won't. But this moment where she [01:14:00] says, I see a lot of myself in you, Andy, what do you think she meant when she said that? And do you think that from Miranda, this is the highest compliment that she can give somebody? What do you both think of that moment?

in the outline you said, is this the highest compliment or is it the darkest omen? And I actually think it rides the line between both. And I actually think this is something that Miranda started thinking from the moment that she met Andy,

while Andy did not make the best impression. And this is where I'm gonna give the movie a little bit of credit. 'cause I'm, I'm, I might come in hotter towards the end here, but I think when she first met Andy, what she saw that reminded her of herself was not necessarily an understanding of the fashion industry or a love for the magazine of runway. It was a knowing that you're good at what you're good at. And not letting anybody tell you otherwise, and also not like compromising who you are right away.

And I think there's a little bit of pushback from her friends and her boyfriend that she's [01:15:00] compromising who she is. But I think what Miranda saw in Andy is, oh, I see a lot of raw stuff that I knew that I had, and with a little direction and a little bit of honing, she can become brilliant.

Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's the best way to put it, is it straddles that line. It's the highest compliment for Miranda and the darkest omen for Andy. And that's exactly I think how we are meant to receive it. You know, again, I've mentioned before we're seeing this film as Andy, we're supposed to be Andy.

So when we're, if you're sitting in that car and someone whose personal, life is in flames, and you know, really it's just all about if you see someone like that. Turn to you betray their friends, and you say, oh, I see a lot of you myself. That's a dark omen for you. You know, that's a red flag you should run. And that's exactly what Andy does, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't fal her for it, and I don't think that Miranda FALs her for it either. I think Miranda is again, surprised that this happened. This [01:16:00] is the first time, and what's great about Meryl's acting is that in the job interview, she was impressed and surprised, but it was subdued when the Harry Potter manuscript flew on her desk.

She was surprised, but it was subdued. There was nothing subdued about the moment when she looked back and saw that Andy had just thrown her phone into the fountain. She was definitely, like you said, Billy, our girl was gagged. She was gagging

I think it's what she, I think she subconsciously wanted her to do that. And I think, you know, as we've said, Andy has a history of pleasantly surprising Miranda. It's what keeps her around that

long. And I think that's what she wanted her to do, but not what she expected her to do. And when she does

it, boom, bing bang, boom, she's done it again.

She's pleasantly surprised. Miranda, she showed her This is not what I'm going to become. And that is the final nail in the [01:17:00] coffin that leads to the resolution between the two of them. the resolution that we see come later.

And let's get to that resolution and speak about that before we give our ratings. I love that. After Andy quits, Miranda gives her, I. What is her highest capacity of giving anybody a glowing recommendation, which is short, Kurt, to the point, my biggest disappointment, and you are an idiot if you don't hire her.

I think that that is the best that Miranda can do. And also that's pretty fucking awesome to give somebody who didn't even work for you for a year and who walked away during a work event that glowing of a recommendation. I think that's great. let's speculate very quickly. This will be the last thing that we talk about before we move on to our ratings.

how do we think Miranda would react years from now running into Andy at a work event? They're in the same space and [01:18:00] Andy comes up to her to say hello. How does that conversation go? Does Miranda try to put her in her place? Is it, does she keep it short? Is it a genuine conversation? What do y'all think?

I think it's like a phone conversation with my Oma. It lasts for about three minutes and I walk away not actually thinking we talked about anything, but it was nice to hear her voice.

Hmm.

yeah, similarly, I think it's very similar to when she saw who was it? The prime minister of the, the senator, whoever who left his wife, and that's the woman he left his wife for Rebecca, I think it's very much that kiss on the cheek, how is it and how's, you know, how's Rebecca, whatever.

That's it. And then onto the next one, there's no, you know, no love loss, no personal relationship. It's just, see ya. Business should give her a nice little smirk and move on.

Although I do think Andy tries to thank her for the recommendation, and she's like, what? Recommendation?

Barely even think about it.

Yeah.

Interesting. Before we move on to ratings, I also want to point out something that I never realized until this watch of the [01:19:00] movie. There is a moment at the ball where Miranda leans into one of her contacts and she's like, so did you get my note?

Mm-Hmm.

moment is her already 10 steps ahead of getting all the contacts she needs to agree to walk away with her if she's replaced.

This woman is always fucking working and that's why she's an icon. And when I caught it in this watch, I literally was like, oh, I never caught that moment before, but that's what, that was so good.

and correct me if I'm wrong,

I'm pretty sure that's Irv that's the guy she has the meeting with later. He's the one who is running, overseeing the move of Jacqueline Foller to become the editor of American Vogue. So when she says, do you get my note, I always took that as like, she already let him know, Hey I wanna speak to you about this.

So he knows GI on to it. And that's when she says, no business. No, no, I agree. No business tonight. But I think that's her letting him know, like. You know, [01:20:00] Hey, we have to talk about this. You know, this is important to me. And him trying as best as he can to avoid it because he knows that she's caught on

All brilliantly, brilliantly understated, so let's go to ratings. So Bill eight, we usually rate these with one out of five batter rings because the Batman Animated Series. Rewatch is our bread and butter. But for this I thought it would be fun in keeping with the letter B instead of battering, we give it one out of five Birkin bags.

So Billy, Billy with you, Billy also starting with the b ha with you being our guest, what do you rate this movie? One out of five Birken bags. What do you get it, give it one being poor, five being flawless.

This is a sin, but I'm gonna cut a Birkin bag in half and I'm going to give it four and a half Birkin bags. And I rate it so highly because Flawless is a very [01:21:00] flawless, is a very difficult standard to achieve. And I'm sure if I went back in, there are a few little things that we mentioned, some we mentioned, some we didn't, that I would change. But that being said, the film is almost 20 years old. I've rewatched it countless times. I've grown up with this film being in my life. I will watch it many more times after this. And I just love it. I think the writing is spectacular. The costume design is spectacular. The music selection spectacular.

The acting is, is out of this world. Casting is great. All of the praises I've already given it. It's a complex movie, but it's also lighthearted. It's. One of those movies, as I mentioned way earlier, where when you're sick or you're tired or you're studying abroad and you're homesick, you can throw a blanket on pop this movie in and you feel comfortable watching it.

But at the same time, it's not just fluff, it's not a boring movie. It has a

message, it has heart. It's a rom-com that made it all the way to the Oscars. And if that's not the best way to encapsulate what a good film for me [01:22:00] is, I don't know what else is. So yes, four and a half Birkins.

All right, Steven.

I was hoping that this would come up earlier in the

natural discussion of the plot, but I'm a little glad that it didn't because I want to give this its own moment because it directly affects how I scored this movie. And I don't disagree with anything that has been said with the, I think the acting was brilliant.

I think it was well written. I think it's a fun movie. I think it has its moments. And I would love to know what you guys think about this. This movie is Horridly Fat Phobic

to a point where I was distracted because it kept coming up. And I, watched this with my partner who also had things to say about how fat phobic it is. And I think the easy way to is to hand wave it and be like, well, that was the early two thousands, mid two thousands, whatever, what have you. And I have decided in rating this movie, and I hope that you, Charlie and Billy, and the audience, as you're hearing this, keeps me accountable to it

In the future, is if we watch a movie that is so problematic to our

standards

[01:23:00] today that,

it distracts me, it's going to affect the way that I score it.

so I'm

giving this

two and a half Birkin bags

because it, it

took me so far out.

of enjoying the experience I have to rate it that way.

Okay. Yeah, respect,

feel that a lot and I think there is no real commentary about the issue other than, being overweight is bad, being thin is good, and to me that is lazy. There is no, point of view on that. Other than that, and the one thing, and I say this as a, you know thin white man, but the one thing that truly did bother me about the incessant mention of weight and whatnot is when Nigel and, and Andy are toasting in the room after, you know, she does something right.

And he says, you bet your size six ass. And she clinks his glass and says four. And that bothered me because that to me is, again, we are supposed to be Andy. We are supposed to share [01:24:00] Andy's point of view. And for Andy to be happy that she has lost the two sizes. That's where I find a lot of trouble because. If in that moment Andy was able to stand up for herself and say something along the lines of, I'm like, yep, I'm a proud six, or whatever it is, or, you know, that would've

changed my mind a little bit on it. But the fact that she's excited and cheersing to that, that troubles me because it is. That's where the point of view and the message comes through and I, I don't agree with it or enjoy it.

I agree with your take there. That was the moment where I looked at my partner and I was like, oh, this isn't a joke. This is, they mean this,

they're,

telling us what they

mean without any tongue in cheek.

To yes and what you both said in the real world. Emily Blunt footage of her from an old interview came back to light of her recount, a story of a waitress and her without any need to bring it up. Just saying, oh yeah. So this fat waitress. X, Y, Z and I think that was about 10 years [01:25:00] ago, or maybe even 12 years ago.

And the internet was dragging her for it. And Emily, to her credit, didn't try to offend herself. She said, yeah, that was really fucked up. I also don't know why I brought her weight into it that had nothing to do with the story. I'm sorry. It was a very simple apology. But I think it also shows that somebody who was involved in this film was also impacted by its message and the character that she played. So I thought that that was very interesting. And I didn't, Steve, thank you for bringing this up. I didn't think about that until now. But yeah, my rating, how many Birkins, I'm gonna give this like Billy, I don't think that this is a flawless movie, but I would be lying if I said that this wasn't.

Something that I have revisited many times, strictly as somebody who just is intellectually turned on by things that are well crafted and well executed and well acted. So I'm gonna be giving it not four and a half Birkins. I'm [01:26:00] gonna give it four Birkins. 'cause I think that it's great. I think that it's really well structured.

I think that every scene moves. I think that no moment in this movie is wasted. I think that that the way that they captured New York specifically as somebody who comes from New York, definitely feels true and it doesn't feel contrived or plastic or really fake. I like the insight that it gave to the fashion industry.

I love that we're still quoting. Meryl Streep's character. I love that. When Meryl Streep approached Beyonce at the Grammys, there was that meme of, what did Meryl say? She's like, oh yeah, so your daughter's name isn't Blue. It's not this, it's Ilian. I think the fact that that lives on until today is amazing.

So it's gonna get four Birkins for me, just from being a total icon of a movie, but also something that purely in a script form I read for myself just to keep up [01:27:00] on my craft. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. Billy, before we get outta here, where can we find you on social media?

Thank you. Yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. Honestly, it was such a blast. And you can find me at B LaRusso, B-L-O-R-U Ss oco on Instagram and Twitter.

Awesome. Thanks for joining us, and listeners, thank you for listening to this episode and enjoy the rest of your day and we'll see you later.

Bye everybody.