B:TAS - "Joker's Favor" + "Vendetta"
[00:00:00] Hi,
friends. Welcome to Charlie and Steve Uff, and today we are watching Batman, the animated series. My name is Steve Snick and joining me as always, he just got back from running away from a road rage
incident with a joker. It's Charlie Peppers. Charlie. How you doing? today?
I'm doing well. It's funny you say that In LA I'm known as the friend from Brooklyn who doesn't drive.
Oh yeah, that's right. You totally, you don't drive. That's so, that's a it. My bad. I've totally forgot that you don't
drive and.
no, no, no. This is a good, this is a good time to highlight that the bus system in LA is dependable and very affordable. Bus system is a good way to get around. The train system is a good way to get around. It also goes to the beach. It's been extended all the way to downtown Santa Monica, so if you wanna get somewhere and I calculated one time driving with a friend, it took the same amount of time taking the train to downtown Santa Monica from Hollywood as it took driving [00:01:00] from Hollywood to downtown Santa Monica with traffic.
So if you wanna save money and also relax and just have a book and go through emails and all of your shit like that, the train could be a more, not only green way to do that, it could be a less stressful way to do that.
Shout out to that LA public transit system, who would've thunk it? I used to take the train from Santa Monica to downtown, that expo line when it existed, and I loved it. I loved doing it. It was super easy, and that, you're right, it takes about the same amount of time, so, and you just feel
like a better person because you're saving the environment.
at the same time.
Absolutely. And saving money. 'cause car insurance and car note and just a lot of shit.,
Let's get into the two episodes of Batman, the animated series that we're going to be watching today. Joker's Favor and Vendetta. The first of which we're going to cover is Joker's Favor released on September 11th, 1992, written by Paul Dini and directed by Boyd Kirkland. The plot of this episode [00:02:00] is when an ordinary man inadvertently crosses paths with the
Joker
he is plunged into a
nightmare
I think crossing paths is a very calm way to say what happens in the
opening
of this episode,
but we'll get to it.
This ain't when Harry met Sally. The joker's terrifying in this episode and I'm so fucking excited. I'm excited to talk about all the things Joker.
So getting into the opening of this episode, we have our quote unquote ordinary man. His name's Charlie. He's sitting in
traffic or radio plays that Hahan has escaped today from the prison. We can only assume that this is the Joker escaping since we know that this episode is titled Joker's Favor. And this guy is complaining about how much his life sucks. He, he's gonna get the same old, tired meal from his same old, tired
life, and he's in the same.
old, tired traffic from his same old, tired job. And all of a sudden he gets
buzzed by
some cops.
and then He gets buzzed by
Batman and then a rando in a Winnebago with not a Winnebago, a station [00:03:00] wagon with a bunch of
luggage on the top of it.
Also buzzes by him. And this is the moment where he snaps, because you wouldn't yell
at cops.
and you wouldn't Yell
at Batman. But I can yell at some rando who cuts me off on the freeway. And just as he starts to quote, unquote, cuss this guy
out, he realizes that the driver is the joker.
Loved it. Just Loved it. And I love that
jokers immediately outsmarting his adversaries. So
that was really great.
And
he has the joker's attention. He's like, oh shit. Like, have you ever
had,
a, well, I guess again, you don't drive, but I can tell you for sure.
back in my Younger
days when I was let's just say on less therapy and
medication
where I took out some of my anger on the drivers
around me. And there are definitely times where
you
decide to say
something,
and then immediately regret saying something. Sorry mom, I'm fine. Nothing ever happened. But yeah, that whole like shrinking down into your seat, that feeling is a very familiar one. I thought they did that really well. And then lesson for you,
road rages. Sometimes people follow you
and you
[00:04:00] never know
when
that person can be. The joker,
hold up,
This is me coming in hot as somebody who, again, takes public transportation. Steve, have you ever been followed by a driver?
I've never been followed all the way home
by a driver.
The
I,
I have had
tangos with drivers that
have lasted more than a moment
that some
were my doing and some were not.
not. That is so strange to me. Well, maybe it's,
Not proud of it.
I mean, We all do things that we're not proud of at certain moments.
I just don't get the culture of you get that upset that you're gonna follow somebody or you're going to yell at somebody or do that. Like what do you think the end result is gonna be? Like, what is the best case scenario in your head for that happening in the moment?
I just, it doesn't compute for me
Well, we'll leave that
rhetorical.
'cause I can't come up with a good answer for it, but I mean, it's a good point. in the
case. of Charlie, and the joker,
the [00:05:00] Joker
decides to be very agro about it. Charlie
runs.
away into a dark corner of the woods, which is when you're running away from the joker, bad move, just terrible move.
And his car breaks down on a hillside and he's, he's
just cowering behind a tree thinking that he's lost him. And all of a sudden the Joker tosses two pennies at him and he goes, here's my 2 cents, which bars, first of all, absolute bars from the Joker using his words against him. And Joker acts like he's gonna kill Charlie here, like, reaching into his pocket, like he's gonna pull out a gun
or a weapon or something like that. And Charlie,
begs for his life, saying that he'll do absolutely anything,
And joker goes, okay,
you got a deal.
I don't know what I
want,
Don't know when I'm
gonna want it,
but when I do want it.
you're gonna be hearing from me.
And I thought that
right here
Was that
first moment of like, oh yeah,
they're getting the joker here because he has chaos in his brain
and.
he knows that he's gonna be good for some sort of chaos down the line, but he's not quite sure what yet. And he has both the foresight to know [00:06:00] that this guy's gonna be useful and also just the absolute like unhinged ness that comes With it.
And I just thought, I thought it was pitch perfect.
What do you
Okay. I am glad to hear you talking about the Joker with this tone. I'm happy to see you light up talking about this version of him. 'cause this is my Joker, like my version of the Joker has arrived. He's got his girl, Harley Quinn, who we'll talk about later and to Yes, and what you said.
It's not just that he has chaos. He has calculated chaos. The Joker is so dangerous because people tend to underestimate just how meticulous he is with his plans. It's not something that you would tell from just looking at him, but he's no slump when it comes to just mapping out. A plan, A, B, C, D, E. He is always 10 steps ahead in a way that rivals Batman.
If Joker were pure chaos and just unpredictable. He wouldn't keep Batman on his toes the way that he does [00:07:00] here and the fact that he has the same level of glee going after this rando on the road as he does terrorizing. Commissioner Gordon and terrorizing Batman just shows that to Joker. He just, He's certifiably insane, and I'm here for it.
I totally agree. And we, after this first display of insanity from the Joker, we get, I cut to two years later, which
Again, I loved it. I absolutely loved that we got this huge time jump and I
also loved that we immediately got Batman in Gordon's office and he's just like super fucking chill with having Batman in his office.
I loved it. I love the progression of the evolution and also just like that he's out the door or out the window, I should say, and Gordon's like, I hate it when he does that. So I, I just, you know,
watching, again, I don't know why it's in this order in Max, I just feel like if you started from the very
beginning on Max and just watched it straight through, you would be so confused about [00:08:00] the nature of this relationship.
So I'm really glad that we're doing it in the correct chronological order because I just feel like this relationship especially is blooming in a way that I'm really enjoying and there. They're not holding our hands too much and they're just, they're working together. They're very chill with each other, and Gordon knows it's a little bit outside the lines, but he's like, this guy's here to help, so I'm gonna let him help.
To add to what you're saying, it gets even more dynamic once Barbara Commissioner Gordon's daughter gets introduced and when we get to her introduction episode, we're gonna see her very slowly before she puts on the costume. Like form that relationship with Batman, where she calls on him herself and where she steps in at certain points.
I wonder what Bruce's mindset is when he starts working with Barbara as Bat Girl. Having this relationship with Commissioner Gordon, like how does he justify in his head that he is working alongside who's becoming one of his [00:09:00] really close and best allies and not telling him that his daughter is in this work.
It's a very interesting conundrum for me, but also on the other side of it, Barbara's making her choice to be doing this work. So Bruce is respecting that by just keeping the secret. And I, I find it very interesting, just the Batman Commissioner Gordon dynamic and Barbara adds something. Even more complicated and interesting and exciting to that.
I, I can't wait. I can't wait.
For sure. Yeah, it's nice to see this picture now and we definitely have something to look forward to in terms of how these two characters grow together and what kind of wrench a character like Barbara throws into the mix.
in this future, two years later the Joker is throwing darts at Commissioner Gordon's picture.
There's gonna be a celebration for him and his accomplishments that he was hesitant to go to in the first place. But our guy, Harvey Bullock, is like, yeah, but there's gonna be good grub there, boss, so we gotta, we [00:10:00] gotta go celebrate you. And he, and he made good on, on the grub, and so we cut to, to joker throwing darts at his picture.
And he's, he's pissed that he's not invited to go celebrate Commissioner Gordon because arguably, who has given the commissioner more to do than the joker, which honestly,
objectively
correct. Like actually objectively correct.
Joker and Maleficent would get along. That's all I'm gonna say. Just you didn't invite me to your potty.
So I'm gonna blow it up.
I'm gonna curse your daughter
I am gonna curse you.
your prick.
Don't, don't stay away from those thos. You don't want to touch those thos. The only thing I have in my notes here in all capital letters is Harley Quinn, baby, we got Harley Quinn. Let's go. I'm
gonna add our first Riddler trophy here in, in just sort of the development of Harley Quinn because if, if you did or did not know, we have mentioned it in this podcast, but Harley Quinn is an [00:11:00] animated series creation. Harley Quinn, according to the creators of the show in our research for this, did say that Harley was originally just going to be that attractive female disguised cop who brings the cake in with, with all of that other stuff at the end of the episode. And they were like, hold on a second. You know, like most good villains have their, you know, have their femme fatal, if you will.
So it, it led them to create the character of Harley Quinn, who obviously doesn't get a ton of backstory in this episode, but we will learn more about her origins as we get into the series a little bit further. And so we have Harley Quinn here in her iconic, original animated series costume. We get her out of costume and makeup a lot, which I actually wasn't expecting. But just a really, a really fun. Introduction to Harley Quinn here. She's obviously like, very much so egging him on is sort of like the, the Bonnie to his Clyde. And Charlie, you say that, you've said this a couple of times and you have it here in the notes again, so I'd love to to have you expound on this a little bit.
Now that she's here, you say that Harley makes Joker a stronger character. What do
you, What do you [00:12:00] mean by that? How? does, How is that, true?
Well, without Harley Quinn joker is just somebody who's committing acts of chaos on Gotham. But with Harley, show that Joker is willing to play the long game, particularly because of how their relationship starts. Harley was treating Joker at Ark Asylum when she was just an intern, and he slowly warmed his way inside of her brain.
He twisted her around. He got her to think that he was in love with her and she became Harley Quinn. I would say that Harley is just as much one of joker's victims as the people that he bombs and Terrorizes and Gotham. So seeing him flaunt around one of his victims, who in her own right is a deeply complex character, just shows how.
Insidious and wicked and twisted. Joker really is like Harley is somebody who Joker has broken the most 'cause they are in an abusive [00:13:00] relationship. Would you say they're in an abusive relationship, Steve?
I would say that they're in an abusive relationship. It's, it's like the, it's the definition of a toxic relationship. It literally involve toxins I think that the Joker does feel more fleshed out having Harley there to sort of. B, his you know, his, his number one and also his counterbalance. Yeah. So moving on to some of the more sinisterness of the joker that you just described. He decides that now is the time to
Call
in his favor with his old
pal Charlie.
And Charlie has moved to Ohio. He has changed his name. And none of it matters because the Joker still has tabs on him.
He's had tabs on him the whole time. He described it as a game to him that he was almost like a pet project in a way, which again, like that maniacal laser focus that I just totally believed, I just a hundred percent believed that the Joker would just like lock into this guy and [00:14:00] make sure he never lost track of him.
And even though he's been doing his own criminal mastermind thing for two whole years, he just, he knew where this guy was and he knew how he was gonna get him again. And just to guarantee that he was going to get on this next flight to Gotham. He has his two big henchman goon guys roll past in a car just as he's telling him that he's gonna get on that flight.
And you're like, oh shit. Yeah, there you're getting on this flight. And he's like, good. See ya. And then you just kinda get that like little Mark Campbell. I mean, shout out to Mark Campbell for sure. Let's get Mark
Campbell, come on the podcast.
Come on, mark. You, you, what else are you doing, man? Come on. The podcast, you're
at Luke Skywalker's a part of a part of the force now.
Just come on the podcast. But man masterclass, absolute masterclass and just how to switch tone on a dime. Like he's so nimble in this role. it's really, really incredible.
Yeah. He really is. And I saw this episode years ago when I did a rewatch of the series, and I had forgotten exactly what Joker's plan for Charlie was.
Harley picks Charlie up from the airport. He thinks [00:15:00] he's gonna like sneak away, but then Harley not in clown makeup, picks him up and joker's explaining what
he's, what,
he wants Charlie to do
and he just goes, Harley's gonna knock on.
a door three times and you're gonna open it. And Charlie's like, that's it. And joker's like, that's it. Like it's a big cake. Like she can't open the door by herself. I
literally thought,
this was like, of course that's what he wants him to do.
why would,
first of all, I was like,
what the, what is this guy gonna do? Nothing.
He's like, he's
not special he's not capable.
He's, as, as Joker said, he's lost hair since he's seen him last. Like the guy's ball actively balding and
getting more outta shape
And it is like, yeah, what, what else would he do? Like but I
think it's also the perfect thing to be like this guy's clearly, like, I don't wanna hurt,
anybody. Like, I don't wanna do anything bad, but he's like, oh, I,
can open a door. So I,
I, thought our
our expectations were subverted correctly
and I really, liked the outcome, it made me laugh.
And that's, that's sort of like,
of
course,
you're just like oh, of course.
this is all he wants him to do, but, And I, and I immediately went,
I wonder what the bigger
plan. is that he's like, unwittingly a part of.
[00:16:00] So I was into it. What about
you?
you? I enjoy that joker terrorized him, but I wish that we would've, I thought the fact that he brought Charlie in for this plan in particular was kind of lame. 'cause Charlie didn't really have much to do.
You know, it kind of felt in my head, the bigger thing for Charlie would have. A joker would've knocked him out, brought him to this location, and Charlie wakes up and there's a bomb strapp to him, and Batman has to juggle like multiple things while there's a bomb strapp to Charlie. But in the end, it's not really a bomb at all.
It's something else. So he puts him through all this stress and anxiety just for Naugh. It just seems to be such a, it feels a little lame to me, just that this is the thing that he brought Charlie in on. But then again, he did think that the entire place was gonna blow. So what have you,
I think
the.
point that the beginning of the episode was trying to drive home is that Charlie's invisible. No one sees Charlie, the cops [00:17:00] Batman, obviously the Joker, but he just believes that he is a pushover for everyone else in his life around him. So I think the Joker. Thought that no one's going to think anything of this giant cake coming in off schedule, and this invisible man that let him in because he's so unassuming, basically, like, I want no
one to suspect anything until it's too late.
I think
that's his angle, and maybe that was like how I took it,
But let's get into The actual celebration,
itself.
We
have Charlie walking into the celebration.
Bruce is in attendance, but you know, he can't stay busy. Social life. Gordon was like, what? I would trade to have your life instead. And Bruce was like, ah, you
know, maybe,
know,
maybe not. It's okay. It's a bit, it's a, you know, it's just a different life. And Bullock is there without a hat. I, I just, I actually did almost didn't recognize Bullock without the hat. For some reason I thought his hair was gonna be less kempt than that. For some reason I was expecting
Bullock to just like not have a clean haircut.
you think bullock's handsome. You think he's [00:18:00] cute,
I think bullock's a piece of shit, but yeah, also, yeah, he's a little cute. He could get it. It's fine. you, you have this noted as, as brilliant as well, but when Bruce is driving away with Alfred and Charlie's trying to figure out how maybe he can signal to Batman that something is going on, because I guess Batman would definitely be around Commissioner Gordon's celebration and he decides to fly a bat shaped looking thing in a giant window that looks like the bat signal.
And Alfred sees it first and is like, Hey, I think you're needed bat there, sir. So Batman, his attention has been gotten and he's going to come into. Try and save whatever is going on there or investigate whatever is going on there. And so we get the three knocks and Charlie, lets, in Harley, again, not in clown makeup, but in a police uniform wheeling in a giant cake Bullock immediately becomes a whole fucking pervert and says something lewd to Harley.
And Harley takes out her nightstick and gives him a, quick shot to the shin. And my favorite part of the scene was Montoya, just like smugly [00:19:00]
smiling in the background
being like, yeah, you fucking deserve that. You goddamn pig. And, Harley recites a, a sweet
poem that
turns sour right at the end and releases a gas that seems to paralyze
everybody but
they seem conscious because you
clearly
see Gordon's eyes looking around and blinking and he sweats. At some point out of nervousness joker pops out of the cake. The gas was never explained. I know you have here in your
notes that it makes no sense. It just, it's apparently
a, a paralysis
gas that Joker has. Harley comes
over to Gordon and he
plants a bomb on his lapel
And he, this is where you find out, he's clearly conscious 'cause his eyes are like
following,
Harley and he starts sweating from nervousness. But Batman swoops in and
grabs the bomb and
shoots it outta
the roof and it explodes outta the roof.
and
that's when Harley and Joker know that their plans are foiled by Batman.
Is there anything about
the sequence that you?
wanna pin onto, or is this just kind of like animated action?
two to three different things from that sequence really stood out to me. One, [00:20:00] it was ingenious that Charlie thought to do that with the bat that just happened to be in that area. I thought that was very clever and it won. This episode points back for me, which I already love it, but the whole Charlie just being the person to knock on the door, I thought that was kind of eh, but him thinking of the bat, having a makeshift bat signal was very, very cool.
I really love Harley Quinn. Just again, giving Bullock a thwack, I thought that was
So is so good.
that moment, I would say is the most important moment for Harley in the episode, and I'm gonna tell you why. The fact that Harley is able to put. A pig like Bullock in his place and to know that she's being disrespected and not being treated the way that she should be, shows that she isn't a lost cause.
There is always a possibility for Harley to rise above the Joker and to claim her personhood back. I don't think that Harley would [00:21:00] work as a character if there wasn't that fiery perseverance. Like there's something very strong about Harley. yes, she's under the joker's thumb, but I don't think that it's because she's a weak person with Harley.
I think that it's because she is 1000% about everything she does. She's gonna be with the Joker. She's with him 1000%. I think that if she decided not to be with him, and if she really committed to that, she would also be about it 1000%. But because of. How deep the joker's claws are in her and how he's able to just manipulate people.
I think that he has a hold on her that I don't think the average man would be able to hold on her just because it's him. It's not Harley's like this with everyone thing. It's the, this is how deeply the Joker has her fucked up thing, because Harley is a bad bitch and you're always rooting for Harley for some reason. You want her [00:22:00] to just turn around and put the Joker in his place. What do you think?
No, I totally agree with that, and it makes me excited for more of her characterization and background and how she grows and evolves. I know that there's an episode specifically with her and Poison Ivy coming up in the near future as well, where they interact. And I'm excited for that one. So I'm just excited to see just like the her growth and what we get out of her.
I would also say that while Harley Quinn makes Joker a better character, she also makes Poison Ivy a better character. You know? So when we see that dynamic, it's definitely gonna be, I can't wait. It's gonna be really interesting.
Well, getting into the kind of finale of this episode Batman has to get through the first two Henchey and Harley Quinn before he can get on with the Joker. So he takes down the two Henchey pretty easily. Harley gets intercepted on the way to some weapons. She tries to grab a
Knife
but it stopped quickly and Batman throws her away.
I know that she gets better at fighting later on, which Charlie also has [00:23:00] noted here, and Batman is off to pursue the Joker. He follows into what looks like a replica Aztec temple. Where are
they? I I, I got confused by this 'cause I thought that they
were at? Like
a Yeah. Shrugs. Okay, shrugs, sure. They're in an
Aztec temple full of traps now.
Great. I didn't track on where they were because I thought they were in like a banquet hall and all of a sudden that they, so maybe I just missed that, you know, cartoons. He's avoiding all these traps and joker, like they're real traps all the way down to the poison darts, which is again, totally joker.
And he seems to
fall into this fake floor with
spikes underneath it.
And I just wanna shout out,
the shot of him. you see the, the darkness and the little peaking light and
then you just see his eyes open 'cause he's hiding underneath the floor that fell out
from underneath
him. And you just see like bat mt.
Like they do. This is the
point. And they do this a couple times
in, in the next episode as well, where you
just get really good, like
Batman's glowing eyes in the
darkness and that shit
is like
cocaine for [00:24:00] me and I love it. And it makes me energized. It gets me going anyway joker seems beaten by
Batman and he tosses another
bomb and
runs out of the,
Aztec temple where he sees Charlie and
Charlie
Decides to grow a pear and gives the joker a big old rib
Shot, which
apparently the joker can't take. A good rib. Rib
shots are
now Canon to just be an
absent between two
face. And Charlie. Like rib shots
are
just
fucking
people up.
And so that's, that's the
secret sauce, I guess.
is a solid rib shot. And then he's like, I'm gonna blow both of us up.
Like it's clear that you're not gonna stop. You're crazy.
So guess what? I
can be
crazy too. And this is really
great
because
Joker goes,
oh, this guy means it, and
I don't actually wanna die.
and he starts calling for Batman because he knows that Batman will save him, what do you think about that?
I enjoy this, but I'm also a little head tilt at that. I enjoy that the Joker doesn't want to die [00:25:00] because in the end, joker wants recognition because he's a megalomaniac and a narcissist
but also I would think that the Joker would out crazy everyone around him.
it takes a little bit of the joker's power away from him for the benefit of a character that we never see again. I love it as a storytelling device, but in terms of it building the mythos of the Joker, it gives me pause a bit because we're just getting to a point where we're seeing why he's so formidable, and somebody who's completely random is able to get a rise out of him just by saying, I'm gonna blow you up.
I would almost say that the Joker would lean forward and say, do it.
I actually sort of disagree with you here. I,
think that Joker knows the game that he's playing with Batman, and he knows that no matter how crazy he
gets, Batman will never cross that line
into ending his life. Like it'll always
be this cat and [00:26:00] mouse.
Yeah, you'll put me in
jail
but I'll arrange an early parole, which means I'll escape.
And
he thinks he can play the game with Charlie, but he doesn't realize that
other people
can be
willing to,
cross that line if they're pushed far enough. And I
think that
this was him learning that lesson I think it gives him more room to,
grow. and so I.
think he's grown this much into having more of this mythos, but I
think that,
this is his, I
think that this is a growth moment for him. I think he didn't
realize that the
game
he plays with Batman is not going to be the same game
with ordinary people
that he ropes into his nightmares. And so this was him learning the lesson that if you push normal people too far, that
don't have as strong of
a, creed as Batman
does, that you could learn to pay
for. it. So yeah, I think that's, that's my pushback on that.
Yeah. I wouldn't have had Joker fault so quickly. It just, I love it for the story, but in terms of the long arc of Joker, particularly because we never circle back to something like this again. And it's never shown that he's like, oh my God, Batman. But then again, I'm gonna play devil's advocate on myself a [00:27:00] little bit.
'cause now I'm, Zooming out in the wider context of joker's character. There are moments where when people kinda flex on Joker, where he cowers back and he's like, oh, oh no, no, no, it's, it's all good. He, he does that. Sometimes. There are moments even with Harley in the future where that sort of happens with the Joker, and I think that that, if I'm gonna rationalize it in my head, Canon, I think that that shows who Joker was before he had this persona, what kind of person he was.
Maybe Joker was a Charlie at a certain point and felt invisible before he snapped. And in those moments where he fears for his life, maybe fear is the only human emotion that Joker is still capable of having. Like I wonder. Ooh. Question for you, Steve.
Okay.
hit joker with his fear toxin, what would joker see?
I have an answer to this, but I want you to answer it.
Maybe it's [00:28:00] him. Six feet under man.
I'm gonna guess and or you on that because Arkham Knight hit the nail on the head about what joker's worst fear would be. Joker's worst fear is yes, being six feet under, but on top of that, everybody has forgotten about him and they're like, joker Who? Who is that? Oh, the Riddler's a way better villain.
Ah, no, he wasn't funny. He was just regular gag clown. Ooh. Maybe joker targeted Charlie because he sees some of his old self or some of his. Hidden reasons for doing the widespread crime that he does in Charlie of not wanting to be invisible and not wanting to pay in the background. That could be some of that.
Well, it turns out
Charlie,
was just joking the whole time and the bomb was fake and Batman for the
first time in,
this series, and one of the only times you're ever gonna see it, ever in this.
series let's out.
What we can only assume is a genuine laugh of amusement [00:29:00] while Joker lays there knowing that he's been duped by the person that he thought he was pulling the strings on the whole time. And we have a very, it's another like wonderful life homage there at the end where Charlie is now looking forward to getting his wife's meatloaf, even though he was complaining about it.
Pretty heartily at the beginning of the episode. And that takes us into the credits. Charlie, do you have any final thoughts on joker's favor before we head into our battering ratings? For this one,
Charlie was on some bullshit. Meatloaf is amazing, but I
Agree, hard agree.
I think that this is the first great joker episode that we have, and for that reason, I'm gonna give it a great battering score of four batter rings. Baby. The voice acting from Mark Hamill was great. The voice acting from the actor who played Charlie was impeccable. He didn't miss a beat. The introduction of Harley Quinn, who was introduced in this show and went on to become her own creature.
The [00:30:00] gag with getting a makeshift bat signal was amazing. There are so many great things about this episode, and Batman was hardly in it,
Hard agree. I'm actually on the same level as you, a four battering rating from me as well. Agree with everything that you just
said
Love the growth of the
Joker.
Loved how the story
progressed. And
yeah, not, not a ton of Batman, but sometimes
you just need
the correct amount of Batman.
And I thought how he was used was very well done in this episode.
So yeah, fours across The
board from myself and Charlie for joker's favor. And we will
move.
right along to our second episode titled Vendetta released on October 5th, 1992, written by Michael Reeves and directed by Frank Power. And the plot of this episode is the dark past of Batman's tormentor.
Detective Harvey Bullock is brought to the surface when crooks that might reveal him as a criminal mysteriously begin to disappear. Now,
the hero
who Bullock's been trying to put away
must unravel the frame up, whose trail leads to mutant
wrestler[00:31:00]
Killer
Crock, and we
go straight into the opening of
this episode where a very shaky and nervous prisoner is being transported by Boat
Montoya. Bullock and Gordon all wait on the docks to receive him, and
Something pops outta the water
and places the bomb on the boat. So you get a little killer, crock moment right in the beginning. Batman is also watching the boat and something snatches that snitch. As Batman watches the boat blow up
and
he races off in his own bat mo boat as the cops obviously don't drown.
They, Get back to the docks and they all go fan out to figure out
what happened. back at the police
headquarters.
Batman listens to Gordon and Bullock argue on keeping him on
the case
because there's a connection
to Thorn
and
Gordon needs to keep him
away from it for some reason,
So Batman goes off to figure out why he needs to keep Bullock away from it.
So he snags his file right
before Bullock goes looking for it. So
Bullock's like, yeah, distant past, what are you talking about? And it,
it turns out
he was suspected for
being on the
[00:32:00] take two years ago.
So,
Steve almost feeling vindicated here until spoilers, he's, he's, he's never on the take, so he continues to not be dirty, which is, you know, it's fine.
I can be wrong about stuff. I can be. I'm, I'm telling myself that I can be wrong about stuff anyway charlie, what do you think of this, this setup so far with, with our guy Harvey?
I love. Well, the biggest win that this episode has is that it interweaves one of my least favorite characters, Rupert Thne with one of the great villains, Killer Crock. In this episode, this is how you do a episode about crime in Gotham. I think just an episode about a criminal like Thorn or Falcon doesn't work for the cartoon because again, it's a cartoon and if we just lean on a street level threat, who Batman could easily dismantle who doesn't really have a gimmick, I don't want it.
not only do they have Killer Crock in here, they introduce him in a very jaws like manner 'cause we [00:33:00] don't fully see him right away. Just seeing a little glimpse of him at the beginning with the boat and we don't know what's happening, was great. this is again, why I'm glad we're doing this in chronological order because if this were out of order, we wouldn't have to pay off of.
Just seeing how Bullock is undoubtedly a piece of shit we saw in POV, how he has an overinflated sense of ego about how he does his job and on leather wings. He was all about getting that SWAT team after Batman and is just never a big Batman fan. So we're set up to believe that he could be a crooked cop, and the pieces are all in place from this opening, which I think is one of the best openings across the series we've seen so far, because it breeds together the police, a street level threat, and somebody from Batman's Rogues Gallery who's a heavy hitter.
I totally agree with that. there's people like me who are doing the, the Leonardo DiCaprio meme of them snapping at the TV being like, ha ha. Hey, hey, it's him. He's dirty. We were [00:34:00] right,
but
you know, we were wrong. It's
fine. And so after,
a quick it's
not even really
an introduction of Killer Crock, you just see Conway waking up in this
Underwater Layer
who seems to recognize this.
So far picture list beasts that appears before him.
and
then we get a return of the thorn. And, and thorn is, gardening in his greenhouse and
Batman,
pays him a visit by breaking one of the windows,
which you're just kind of like, why did you do that
other than to just like mess with him. more great
lighting, animations of Batman's eyes and the darkness and the rain and the lightning. Just so freaking good. And as he's chatting with Thorn about the situation, these goons pile in with a bunch of guns and they point them at Batman and Batman backs them out of the window that he broke and jumps off of the roof with Thorn and uses his grappling hook to swing to another ladder, which if we're talking real life, he just full on smacks
thorn into this ladder at full speed.
Like he would've rearranged thorn's face if this was real life.
but
love the
[00:35:00] intimidation
very
arc. The way that he leaves him is very,
AUM games where he just kind of like strings him up by the leg and leaves him hanging there. But he claims that he has nothing to do with the
disappearance of Conway, that he's got nothing on
him. It does, it wouldn't even bother
him
if he did testify. And, and that's when Batman drops him and continues his search. Great scene, honestly.
I wish it would've come a lot sooner 'cause I fucking hate Thorn. Like, why is he such a big threat? I don't know why the show kept trying to make him a big deal. Stop trying to make thorn happen. Thorn and fetch are never gonna happen. I just, I'm tired, Steve.
I am tired. Of
is never gonna happen.
tired. Of seeing him
You're tired of seeing an old white man on your screen. What a surprise.
Same
Maybe if he were hotter, I wouldn't mind.
baby. Yeah. If he was more Anderson Cooper
maybe if he looked more like Bullock when he is all guzzi up and
Silver. Silver Harvey. Silver Bullock.
that's a different version of Big Bad [00:36:00] Har that I want in my life immediately.
Call the heck Daddy, daddy Bullock Indeed. So Batman and Gordon are taking a beach roll together and are talking about Daddy Bullock and Batman's on
team Steve. He thinks that Bullock is dirty and Gordon is on Team Charlie who pushes back and says, no way. This is one of the, he
might have
his unique way of doing things, but this is one of the best and most loyal cops I have on the force. And then the moment Montoya appears, Batman's gone, which again, I love it. I love that
Batman,
only talks to Gordon and really works hard to make sure that no one else sees him talking to Gordon, which I think is good.
Steve. Maybe he has social anxiety.
maybe he has social anxiety. Listen,
I've have also experienced rendezvous with an individual that I didn't want anyone else to know about. So been there, done that. I
get it, dude.
Steve, is, is it
I, no.
am I the individual? Is it, is it Charlie?
No, it's not. I promise
Okay. Okay. Just [00:37:00] checking.
Not appropriate. Well, it is probably appropriate podcast talk, but we're gonna stay focused.
and I'm not gonna get myself in trouble
anyway. Batman, after his little rendezvous with Gordon, finds a little tiny glove and some wreckage of a boat and someone posing as Bullock, someone posing as Bullock
waddles up to the prison dripping
not waddles.
No,
waddles. Definitely. Did you like my play? Odd words there. He waddles a little bit.
Hey, he, he slumps up in his, his dripping wet trench coat, and it are one of
our few Riddler trophies here that Charlie let me know is that the, the voice of Harvey Bullock actually was the voice of, as we know, later Killer Crock in this moment. It, and it's, it's crock impersonating Bullock to confront someone else who seems to know him. And Bullock is then arrested at a diner for suspicion of said breakout that poorly disguised killer crock perpetuated in this scene.
have you seen the Little Rascals movie?
Oh my God, [00:38:00] yes. That, that's That,
what it reminded you of
it, it reminds me of the Little Rascals movie where they're like,
okay, tell me your account number here. 7 7 8. It kind of
This is a poll.
that moment. Little
What a poll.
films
So
at the bat cave,
Batman is examining. The glove under the scope. I, I just wanna shout out our last guest, Alex, because he made a comment here about how when Batman's by himself or with Alfred in the bat cave doing science things, he still decides to wear the bat suit in its entirety.
And he is a hundred percent doing that in this scene. And
now. I'm never gonna be
able to unsee it. It's just
like
why you gotta wear your mask to like look at a microscope when
you're hanging out by yourself.
Dude, it's super funny. Anyway, shout out to Alex. You were a great guest. And For some reason, Alfred, like referencing a,
crockpot cues him that like,
that it might be a
[00:39:00] crocodile because it's like part human part reptilian, does he do, we think he
knows,
about Killer Crock already because he seems to like have to do some like research to figure
out who this guy
is. So it's just, I didn't
quite,
bridge that gap to like Alfred referencing a crockpot and. Batman being like, this might be a crocodile band.
Well, after he was almost eaten by a plant monster that looks like a vagina and nothing's off the table.
That's true. He did just have Clay face
but I do also clayface, who is the original gay icon?
Original
OG
move over Harvey Milk
move over Harvey Milk and Harvey Dent ao. I'm a little, I did kinda laugh to myself when.
Batman went to the actual zoo to kind of follow up on this hunch, it was, it was giving magic school bus. But you know, you gotta do what you gotta do.
If only they went microscopic into somebody's bloodstream, that would've just really done it for me.
Oh, man. Magic school [00:40:00] bus. What a classic.
that's the crossover content. I didn't know I needed just Batman and Miss Rizal solving a crime inside of a joker's bloodstream.
I'd be so into that, Batman gets his get, I guess
his confirmation that
it is crocodile skin or
whatever.
and he pulls up to an underwater cave where he finds the two kidnapped goons, and Crock pops outta the water.
we,
get to see him in full
He's huge. He's
terrifying. and
he immediately handles Batman. he's like, oh yeah,
one
little benefit to being a Roc man is that I
have
the strength of a goddamn crocodile. And he just tosses him into the water and starts to dry on him. And he gives some background on himself before Batman manages to kick himself free, which is where he was like, I was a circus performer and I was a professional
wrestler, and then I turned
to a life of crime.
And that's it.
like,
we don't know why
he's a crock baby or a crock person, but we do kind of find out that that's what he was like as a child. So he was a crock baby [00:41:00] and grew up into a crock man?
He, he is a full ass crock man, I like that we get just a little bit. I like that they didn't go the Danny DeVito route from Batman Returns and have him just go and like you. I just want respect. I, I think this was a really great with somebody like Crock Less is Moore, because I think that outside of being, you know, grotesque on the outside, on the inside, he really is just a two bit thug.
He really is one of the Pettiest villains. I would actually, I would argue Crock is the Pettiest villain in Batman's rogues gallery. Even if he weren't a crock, he would be like this and I will die on that Hill Crock is just, kind of garbage
let's get into the finale of this episode. We, we get that context download. That Crock was that side
show
at a circus turned, wrestler turned criminal, and
he was busted by Harvey. Thanks to the two guys that he had kidnapped, that [00:42:00] Batman has just escaped with. And Catching Crock can clear Bullock's name, but they need to lure him out. So it, it turns out that they don't really need to lure him out because Bullock gets into a car and Crock is just there. And realized it was him who set him up. But Batman's also there who stops crock from herding Bullock and chases him down into the sewers. And
Batman.
uses a, a bright light to try and incapacitate croc here, which works, and he
gets a good kick in.
how cool did this look? Batman
looked awesome. And his like, ultraviolet Yeah. Protection visor on his, yeah. The red, again, just animating the eyes of Batman just seems to really do it. They just, they seem to figure out that like the face and the scowl and the, the glowing eyes is like really a selling point of how intimidating Batman can look.
And I feel like they've really leaned into it in these two episodes. And Crockett's Batman Underwater I love that he's very outmatched, strength wise here. He can't just punch his way out of it. So he relies on his gadgets. He ties crock up in one of his grappling
hooks.
[00:43:00] He shoots him into a brick wall and crock ripping that brick wall out
causes the entire underground
of the sewer to collapse. And Batman pulls an unconscious crock out of the sewers for bullick to arrest and take in. And I really liked this little moment of
understanding.
bull's rolling up with a gun drawn. You think that he's either gonna like, try and kill Crock, or try and
arrest Batman
for a second, but they actually just like have
a conversation.
and they have a little bit more like understanding and Batman's, like, I know we do things differently, but like we both care about the law just as much as the other person.
Here's your guy, I'm outta here.
I thought it was really good. What do you think?
I thought that was good. I love that look of understanding between them and Bullock being like, why'd you help me? And I really like how flexible Batman can be
definitely has his hangups, but when it comes to it, at the end of the day, he just wants crime to be exterminated from Gotham, and he's willing to go through it by any means necessary.
a hundred percent. And
[00:44:00] Bullock Has a little moment on,
TV to finish off the episode where he's been vindicated of his crimes
and
he has this speech that he's, he's
kinda like,
the same old book. he's like, I'm gonna be there to
To stop you. criminals. And Batman.
watching the telecast gives a little spurt at his final speech 'cause he knows that,
You know, maybe they have a little bit more understanding.
but it's the same old bullet.
So
I'm really interested
to see what the dynamic of their
relationship.
is going to be moving forward.
Just some quick final thoughts before we hit up our battering ratings
for this episode.
I honestly, Charlie, I, I really enjoyed watching.
both of these episodes. They were really fun. I thought they had some great villains.
I thought they had some great
storylines. I thought the animation.
was even a, like continuing to ride that
high from that second episode of Feet of Clay. And so I'm going to also bestow vendetta with a four battering rating. So what do, what do you have for this one, Charlie?
call me Selena Kyle. 'cause I am gonna copycat the shit out of that
Let's go.
Four battering for this [00:45:00] episode. The animation was impeccable. The voice acting was impeccable, but more than that, the writing, the way that it wove together so many different elements of the show, some of which don't always work for me, like Thorne
really set me on fire.
I also think that the show is at a point where it's starting to have fun with its premise. And it's starting to play around with certain things that it does. I think that once you have characters impersonating other characters like Crock did with Bullock, that's when the audience has a lived-in knowledge of how Bullock typically is, and they can enjoy somebody treading inside of a characterization that we've seen done to different, varying levels of success before.
I thought that that was amazing, and I just love the image of Batman's glowing right eyes. I love that we caught glimpses of Killer Crock. You know what, actually fuck that four and a half battering
Let's go. Nice.
because I think while it isn't a masterpiece, it is a good showcase for what this show can do well when it's [00:46:00] firing on all cylinders.
This is a great episode, and I think particularly within the. Canonical existence of Charlie and Steve Wats stuff. I'm glad that I've witnessed you making it here. 'cause you thought Harvey was corrupt.
thought, you're right. I think I can finally fully take that l.
Yeah. You thought, I knew this was coming. I knew Daddy, daddy Bullock.
Daddy Bullock was gonna,
doubt Daddy Bullock,
doubt Daddy Bullock, you know,
sage advice.
soon to be Zdi Bullock. Okay. I'm kidding. Not really,
I love it, man. Well, that's gonna do it for this episode of Charlie and Steve Tuff. We
watched the two episodes, Joker's favor
and Vendetta,
and
we'll be back next time with our next episode of
Batman, the Animated Series with the two
episodes, fear of Victory and the Clock King.
For myself, Steve Sonick and my good friend Charlie Peppers. We will see you on the next one. Thanks friends.
