Scream
[00:00:00] Hi friends! Welcome to Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff, where today we are watching Scream. My name's Steve Selnick, and joining me today, as always, he just wants to know what your favorite scary movie is. It's my good friend, Scream. Charlie Peppers. Charlie, how are you doing on this very much so not Halloween like Sunday in August?
September 1st!
It's September
1st, You're right. You're totally right. It's
boo boo?
feels like August. That's right. It's the beginning of the good weather in San Francisco. So it feels like summer for me. I'm sure it feels like summer all the time in LA
Not really. I mean, September is, I think, when it gets the hottest in LA. Late August, early September is when it very much gets high 90s, like, low 100s. I first moved to Los Angeles 13 years ago around this time, and I remember it just being very, very hot, and that [00:01:00] hasn't changed.
Same. Actually, I did also move there in early September and it welcomed me with hot valley temperatures. I was in my tiny little pool very often on Coinga Boulevard. Shout out to Coinga Boulevard. Anyway, that's not why we're here. We're, well, I guess we're kind of here to talk about LA because we're here to talk about Scream.
We're here. I guess this is technically, we're calling this season two. What are seasons? What are, what is anything? What is time but a flat circle? If you know, you know, but we're, we took a little bit of a break. We'll Charlie raised a whole bunch of money for a short film called Stakeout that we're really, really excited about.
But we're coming back at you in late September, early October, so we decided to come back with a Vengeance. Like the masked man himself, Jason Voorhees, right? Was he the masked one? Or is that Michael Myers?
Was Michael
They both, they both wear a mask, Steven.
I'm showing my
So, so, to anyone listening, to anyone listening, Steve is not [00:02:00] a scary movie fan. He,
Beat me
he is not, and I am a scary movie enthusiast to the point where my weirdo ass will curl up in bed and put a horror film on to fall asleep. That's how much I love the genre. I love it.
I can't believe you
do
can't believe you don't. It's so good. It's so cozy.
Listen, I, I watch actual cozy things when I want
Like what?
Like, like, like City Builder video game. Shout out to City Planner Plays. He's great and his voice is smooth butter nice and relaxing I don't I don't tend to fall asleep to blood curdling screams I'm the kind of person where if the my partner is watching something out in the living room and the gunshots are too loud I have to like go ask her to very meekly to turn it down and if I can hear the gunshots through the Headphones, it's
it's not me man, but I'm glad that it's you.
Yeah, I mean, [00:03:00] that's why I love having a TV in my room. I
Fair enough, fair enough. Well, we are coming back in season 2 with a month's worth of horror films. Starting out with this first one, Scream, that we're gonna cover. Mostly because I needed to have a physical representation of how deeply I love Charlie. And there's, there's no better way to show it than by willingly watching scary movies.
And then talking about them on a podcast about, well, I gotta say this one didn't get me as much. I only a couple of scenes got me in this one. It was, I, it was sillier than I remember a scream. I've seen before some of the other movies that we have coming up that we have planned. I have never seen before.
There's actually one that we're going to see that neither of us have seen before, which is going to be fun. Before we get started. Because we've already established that I'm not a horror film guy. Don't love it. And we're establishing here that Charlie is very much so a horror film guy. Likes to watch [00:04:00] horror films as he curls up in bed to go into terrible dreamland at night. So Charlie, why? Why? Why?
Why this genre? Why does it speak to you? Why do you love it so much?
it does tension really well. It does chase scenes really well. It also, things are constantly happening in a horror film. And the problem with movies that don't quite hit or that they spoon feed the audience, the audience knows what's going to happen next. The beautiful thing about a horror film is that.
You are on the edge of your seat, you're being given information as the lead character or final girl, as they call it in the horror genre, so you literally are in the place of the character in a very vulnerable life or death situation trying to figure out it. Is the killer behind door number one?
Are they behind door number two? How's this person gonna survive? [00:05:00] It's usually a civilian who has to use their wits to get out of this larger than life scenario It really is fun and you can do so many things with the horror genre. I think that the Horror genre has a lot in common with musicals The characters are so pent up with emotion that they can't help but burst into song and you can play around with different metaphors and different themes.
With horror, you can do that as well. It isn't just about the killer, it's about the killer representing something in society, representing something that needs to get out or something that needs to be expressed through because otherwise people would ignore it. It very much is a Genre that can do multiple things and can really cover a lot of ground.
I love horror. It's probably my favorite. Yeah, it's my favorite genre.
Cool. Well, hey, I love you and I'm excited [00:06:00] to dig into the genre very much So willingly blink three times if you're here on your own volition I'm I'm a hundred percent into it and I will say we're gonna get into scream right now but one thing that I noticed right away with scream was how hard it dug into the horror genre and And I think how much love it expressed for the horror genre by sort of making fun of it the whole time.
But we'll get into it. We'll get into the film itself. And that, that'll, that'll take us into Scream Itself, which was released on December 20th, 1996. Screenplay by Kevin Williamson, directed by Wes Craven. Ever heard of him? Starring Nev Campbell, David Arquette, Courtney Cox and then a few other that guys, if you watch the rewatchables, there are definitely some that guys in this movie.
And the plot of the movie is a year after Sydney, and that's Nev Campbell's mom, is murdered, more murders start to occur. She begins to suspect if these murders are related and tries to find the killer as everyone seems to be a [00:07:00] suspect. And we'll go directly into Act 1 featuring not really that guy, it's Drew fucking Barrymore.
But we get an opening scene with Drew Barrymore, which I think in 1996, this opening scene probably like actually caused people to shit their pants because throughout all of this like spooky phone call, you get all these horror tropes. She leaves the popcorn on the stove. Her boyfriend's tied up in the backyard.
She quickly realizes that the call's coming from inside the house. But From start to finish, you're like, yeah, but this is Drew Barrymore. Like she's going to, nope, Drew Barrymore gets killed violently with her parents listening to it on the phone. I forgot about that part. Listening to someone like slowly get stabbed to death on the phone when it's your daughter must be absolutely terrifying.
This is actually the one scene that kind of scared me a little bit. And then the film kind of gets sillier and sillier from here, but it also establishes the killer, establishes that they're obsessed with horror movies. Drew kind of plays into it a little bit and eventually it becomes [00:08:00] real and you're like, okay, so here's the setup.
The serial killer is, is here. Ghostface is, is doing his thing. What do you think, Charlie? It's kind of like an iconic scene in film history if you, if you really like think about it,
It's an extremely iconic scene drew Barrymore was top build on the poster. She was the face that many people were coming to see when they announced this film, so killing her off, that was a very gutsy move, and I believe that Drew pushed for that, just for shock value.
I I love this cold open for the film because it does a lot of things well. It sets up what the killer's gimmick is. The gimmick is calling someone on the phone and putting them through this trivia of whether or not they know what certain horror films are. I thought that it was really really well done.
Question for you, Steve. If someone, I'm wondering now, if someone [00:09:00] were to randomly call you multiple times like they did Drew Barrymore in this movie. What would your reaction be?
Multiple times? I mean, like, this is the, it's probably a reason why I didn't watch horror movies because that shit felt too real. I would be losing my mind after like the second one. Probably. I'd be, like, calling people I knew, calling emergency services, like, all of it. We're also way too paranoid these days, very rightfully
so, but It's so fun, even to just, like, those old style phones and the way she walked around with it, and it was wild every single time she, like, was like, Ugh, he's calling again, I guess I gotta pick it up again.
Like You don't have to pick it up again. You could just like figure out what the hell you're doing with yourself, but willingly distracted is, is definitely one of those tropes that they lead
Yeah, Yes, and to what you said with technology and with cell phones now We can see if something's an unknown number, we can see if it's potentially a telemarketer, we can see so [00:10:00] many things that flash across the screen before we pick it up. It's kind of an extinct way of being, just picking up the phone not knowing who it's gonna be.
I never do that. I let that shit go to voicemail.
If they have something to say to me and it's not a number I know, they can definitely say it in voicemail
Absolutely. Or shoot me a text.
A hundred percent.
me a goddamn text.
Let me know what's up, please. And thank you. I'm not going to answer your stranger phone call. We then cut to the true protagonist of the movie, that's Sidney Prescott, who's attempting to cope on the anniversary one year ago, her mother was brutally murdered, and her dad is going out of town and we have this whole scene where her boyfriend sneaks into the house and She's being rightfully prudish because a she's in fucking high school And b also like she's trying to cope with her mother being raped and murdered So I guess not being very sexually forthcoming, but then after they make out and do a little over the closed stuff She then flashes him before he leaves.
So I guess she's like sort of into it, but not all the way there yet [00:11:00] it's it's weird because You I think, and maybe you can disagree with me here because we've both seen this movie before, but, from this very moment, And I think this is true throughout the movie. The movie tells you exactly what's happening the whole time, but they do it in a way where I think if you're watching it for the first time, they're like, no, that's too obvious. And you're like trying to fit in there and they leave some other threads open enough that you're like kind of questioning it. This time around, the boyfriend is so obviously a murderous psychopath from the very beginning it was comical to me, like I found myself giggling along for the rest of the movie because I think the movie is like, No, it's actually And we're gonna make it really obvious that it's him the whole time.
By the way, he just kinda like, looks and acts. But if you're watching this for the first time, we're also gonna make you question it a little bit. I think they do a really good job from establishing that from like, scene number one.
I'm gonna push back a little [00:12:00] bit. I think a lot of people looked like how he looked in the 90s. That was kind of like the,
I'm not talking about how he's dressed, I'm talking about how he looked at
her. And how he like, looked haggard and looked like a fucking psychotic monster the entire time. Like he, he looked at her like he wanted to consume
looked at her like she
in that
looked at her like she was a bowl of cookie crisp. I think that that is definitely what it was giving. I, maybe I'm protective of that character because I think that this is one of the best performances in the film. And I think it's one of the best performance. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I, I think the movie is his character is doing multiple. It's kind of a, it's kind of a Trojan horse, him wanting to consume her and him wanting to go to the next level with her. Just the eroticism of that, just because of how his mom
he got one of those [00:13:00] things.
Don't the way that her mom broke apart his family. So there is a lot of weird psycho sexual shit going on there.
But if you watch the things that he's doing with his face and his body language and just his eyes throughout scenes with other people. I think that it is so fascinating watching this knowing that he's the killer. Because you're really able to just see what he's thinking each step of the way. I definitely think that there is nuance.
I think that him being a little bit obvious is more maybe the choice in editing. Of, let's give him, let's get him giving her this really crazed look. Just to kinda telegraph it a little bit more.
Well, actually, I think you did a better job of explaining the point I was trying to make with what you just said. when you, on a second watch through, when you know that he's the guy the [00:14:00] whole time, you watch the way he acts closer. And the way that he acts is not just like, oh, how could it be him? He was so normal the whole time.
He was not normal the whole time. He
was very much so Not normal. Ever in this and his best friend was also very much so not normal the whole time and a much more frantic like I'm actually just kind of following along and getting some cheap thrills out of this He you could see I think you're exactly right.
You could see those wheels turning the whole time And stuff like that. And you can see, and we're about to get to this, and we'll just get right into it. The next night, she's home alone, Sydney is home alone, and she gets attacked by Ghostface in her house. She was gonna go over to her friend's house and spend the night over there, didn't get to have that chance. And after this really intense struggle, and one point that you were making, Charlie, before we started recording, Ghostface gets fucking throttled, like, multiple times throughout this movie. And she gets, like, a couple of good kicks on him. [00:15:00] He goes, like, whoever was The stunt actor playing Ghostface in these scenes must have been told to like, Hey, like, ham these falls up.
Like, go as vertical as or go as horizontal as you can whenever these kicks hit your chest. Because he took some shots.
Yeah, I want to yes. Yes, and I want to back up a little bit. I love that scene. I want to Get into Neve Campbell who is one of my scream Queens literally She is a linchpin of this genre and she is in so many of my favorite things that have ever been made One of which we'll cover on the pod I want to give flowers to Stu, the actor who plays Stu, who also plays Shaggy in the Scooby Doo franchise, for how he, during that scene, when they're just in the courtyard, it's him, it's Skeet, who plays Billy, it's Nev Campbell, it's my girl Rose McGowan from Charmed, [00:16:00] and they're all just About how Drew Barrymore got killed, and like you said, Stu, he has a lot of frantic energy, and if you watch the way that Billy is fucking looking at him, that entire scene, because Stu does this several times, he comes so close to just telling on himself, and just Outright being like, oh, we did it, and Bailey's like, shut the fuck up, don't say that, you know, and it's very on second watch, like you said, it's very obvious, even the way that it's I love the blocking of that scene, because you have Sydney and Tatum, her friend, in the middle, sitting on the fountain, and then on the outskirts, you have the boys And you have Billy kind of like leaning behind Sidney kind of on the outskirts observing everything from afar which really shows what kind [00:17:00] of killer he is a little bit more calculated and you can also see the kind of killer that Stu is from just how frantic he is and if we really a fun game that I like to play in this movie is guessing who did what killings Throughout the film
and I think I think that Stu is the one who ended up stabbing Casey The night before because they used to go out and she dumped him So that was definitely a revenge kill and if you look I watched it with audio commentary Wes Craven, R.
I. P Said that when Casey pulled off the mask, there's this blink and you miss it flash of Recognization in her face when she looks at the killer's face She was seeing Stu's face before he stabbed her. That was Stu and It was definitely Jumping forward to where you brought us when Sidney was attacked.
That was [00:18:00] Billy and For sure. It was 100 percent Billy, and before we get to the chase, I also want to give Sydney her flowers for just how well written this scene is and how well she acts it. Just the beats of, oh, you want, you want to know what my scary movie, what my favorite scary movie is? She like, picks her nose, she's like, bullshitting them, she's looking around.
This movie does such a good job with her character and making her someone you want to follow Not just in this film, but in multiple films like Steve. What did you like about Sydney?
Shut the fuck up
She was hot. Ahahaha! No, I'm kidding. I mean, the movie immediately speaks to the du like, what, what, what was the, the final female? Is
that what you called it? The final girl
See, I was, I was trying to [00:19:00] think it was nicer than it actually was. They, like, they talked about the final girl thought, and she actually talks about it in this monologue, being like, they run up the stairs instead of out the front door, which is just insulting, which she then does, like, two seconds later,
She tries to leave
but yeah
She tries to leave, but she can't. But yeah, then she goes up the stairs after she throttles Ghostface, but I do, I do like that they write her, and again, like, this movie is both a, satire of, and a love letter to, in my opinion, the horror genre. It doesn't take itself seriously enough to be like a full and I think this is why I actually spoilers, I like this movie I think that's why I ended up liking this movie more than I was frightened by the movie, because I was able to identify that I didn't have to take it seriously very quickly. I think if you give me a movie that forces me to take it seriously the whole time, those are gonna be the ones where I was like, Nope, didn't like that. [00:20:00] Didn't
like that one bit. Cause I was scared brainless the whole time. Which I know, I know you're saying that, cause I know we have movies that are gonna make me do that the whole time.
So, great. Can't wait for that. But this one, I was, after the first scene, I felt like there was so much tongue in cheek energy, especially with the character we're about to be introduced to, who was one of my favorite characters, which was Dewey, a. k. a. David Arquette. There was just so much comedy injected into this movie that it allowed me to relax a little bit.
And I also know that some of the more horror focused scenes are also very campy and iconic, so I was, I was looking forward to, basically, there's like, really, at this point, two more big action set pieces, but before we get into this part, we have to get into the attack with Sidney, by, spoilers, it was, it was Billy and the Ghostface, I mean, if you don't know the, the answers to the questions of this movie already.
I, I regret to inform you that [00:21:00] you're nearly 30 years too late. So sorry about that. But so one big thing that happens is the, the fight is happening. She's in her room.
Yeah, yeah Billie appears I think she tried to call the cops. I think she used her computer to call the cops.
That's what it was. Yes. She, she got on it because the phone wasn't working So she got on the computer
very clever. No one had done that in a horror film before.
not a final girl. She's a final woman. Okay?
underage, but,
motherfucking woman. But while while Billy like he's like, oh, I just like I heard the screaming and I came running I And, and the door was locked or whatever, which is true. The door was locked. Cause he was already in the house and seems like he's comforting her. And again, I think this is the movie being like, this is the guy, he drops a cell phone out of his pocket. And, and Cindy, very rightfully, it was like, nah, [00:22:00] hold on one motherfucking second. They have a really funny jump scare where she opens the front door and it's Dewey holding the ghost face mask and they all get taken into the station and Sidney points the finger at Billy because, again, why the fuck wouldn't you? I think that's the correct move and he gets put into jail but while he's in jail, she gets a call From the killer and so you're made to think that the killer can't be Billy because Billy's in jail So there's this whole like oh my god, who is it moment?
The second scent that they're throwing out there, I think, that they start to, to establish here is that they're trying to get in touch with her dad and they can't, they can't find him. They, they thought they knew where he was. He wasn't actually at the hotel. That he said he was gonna be at, and so her dad is in the wind.
So suddenly, we get kind of like in everybody's a suspect moment. But, we're about to meet Courtney Cox, who is another iconic character
in this series, not
[00:23:00] Fucking star. She,
Acting like a
eats. She fucking eats this role. She's probably my favorite character in this
she was great. So I actually, I want to, I want to pass it to you to kind of like go through the, the introduction of, of Gale Weathers, aka Courtney Cox, aka Gale Weathers.
Absolutely Steve, Already under considerable stress, Sydney is forced to deal with the scandalization of her own attack by ambitious tabloid television newswoman, Gail Weathers, who is the author of a tell all book revealing the promiscuous affair between Sydney's mother and her convicted killer, Cotton Weary.
School is soon canceled as a precautionary measure, leaving the building temporarily abandoned. The school principal is then killed while still inside the school when he was distracted. Before I forget, before the Fonz,
yeah, Henry
Emerson alum.
Malone, also, he gave my graduation speech, my [00:24:00] commencement speech for grad school back in, I believe it was 20 2013.
2012 to 2013, I graduated from my master's program. He was so wonderful.
That's awesome. I'm glad to hear that. There's a, one of my favorite podcasts is that I like to listen to for movies.
I've seen before movies that I want to watch is called the real watchables. And they have this award called the Dion waiters award. And basically this is a sports reference, but Dion waiters was this basketball player who just always, always had confidence shooting the ball basically. And he was very talented.
He could go basically as someone who. Played for like eight minutes and scored like 15 points like just came in filled it up And then he was gone for the rest of the game Henry Winkler in this movie is far and away the Dion Waiters award winner Because he's in like three scenes you could tell he was there for like a day and a
Oh, Les! Les! Yeah!
Yeah, maybe like [00:25:00] six hours We're gonna, we're gonna have everyone think that you're the murderer for about five minutes, and then we're gonna kill you violently. And, and, and then he's gone, and it was amazing. Like he, he talks shit to, to, he like expels two guys, and then he gets killed.
And
He chewed so much damn scenery. He chewed All of the scenery. He chewed so much scenery, there were like bite marks just all over the furniture. It was so good, but he does it in such a great way. The great thing about character actors like Henry Winkler is he is intelligent enough to know what kind of film he's in.
And I find it very impressive that he understood the tone of this movie when no other movie had attempted to bend genre the way that Scream had. Henry's such a fucking pro. So much respect for him. Have you seen Barry?
I have
Barry is so
but it's incredible,
of the lead characters in that and I'm [00:26:00] not gonna tell you what his arc is But Barry has a chef's kiss of a series finale and just a series run in general but I digress Courtney Cox complete star and I'm a little annoyed that we never got to see More of her doing roles like this, but then again You She's been in every film of this franchise, so maybe she, this is her role.
This is her role to do that, but Let's play a fun so Friends, if you're looking at the Friends cast how would you rank them in terms of acting ability? I think that they're all talented Th
Acting
ability, I think they're all talented, but I have a strong ranking of where I think everybody falls in terms of Okay, this character.
Yeah, you do it.
Give me yours and I'll give you mine
[00:27:00] with a bullet. I think number two, I think number two is Courtney Cox.
Okay, interesting
number I, I think the women carry that show. And I think number three is Jennifer Aniston. I think number four is rest in peace, Matthew Perry. I think number five is Matt LeBlanc. And I think number six is David Schwimmer. I think David Schwimmer fucking sucks.
know, it's funny, you know, it's funny David Schwimmer is my number one
He's your number one?
David Schwimmer is my number one. He's not my favorite character on Friends My favorite character, my two favorite characters
also be last as if I did my favorite character rankings in
Friends. He would be by far
I don't, I don't care for Ross, but I love David Schwimmer and you know why? David Schwimmer does physical comedy better than anyone else on that show. If you really are [00:28:00] looking at the way that Those different actors emote in a way that they move through their scenes in the beginning I think David is obviously the leader in so many ways when everybody else was finding their footing so I think And I did a series watch of Friends sometime in my 20s, and that's actually when it hit me.
I'm like, wow, David Schwimmer's really, really talented, and I'd taken him for granted. I think David Schwimmer's easier to take for granted because he doesn't have the flashier character. Like, Joey has a gimmick Matthew Perry, may he rest in peace, also extremely talented. But my ranking, David Schwimmer, number one, Lisa Kudrow.
Number two, I think that Lisa Kudrow is one of those lightning in a bottle actresses that she just seemed to have that character in her bones, in her body. When she was Phoebe, it's like, oh wow, [00:29:00] you're just, wow. You're just fucking funny, and you're making this look effortless. So I would put her as number two.
Number three, and I go back and forth on this, Jennifer Aniston is my number three. And what she does so well, I think she's so present. She's so present with everybody. They're all really present, but I think she's present in a way, That she can bounce off of and have charisma with anyone, because she listens really well and her reactions are spot on.
She can hear the most outrageous thing and she'll just pause and just go like, I mean it's important that you think that. And she'll do like a reaction like that. See? And it's funny. It's fucking funny. Because she just has this it factor oozing out of her. And I know we're talking about Scream, but I'll get to Courtney Cox.
I And for my number four, I would say Matthew Perry, because Matthew was just [00:30:00] able to just be this sarcasm machine. And definitely with the way that he would change a sentence, make almost anything funny. I would put Matt LeBlanc over Courtney Cox. Only because
Are you putting her
I'm putting her last, but I don't think that she's bad.
I just think that the writing did a disservice to her towards the end of the show.
I also, I'm going to admit really quickly that I expanded my consideration of them as performers into their whole body of work
as well. So if I, I might, I might have a different rating for them if I thought of them just as performers inside of friends. So I would have to maybe recalculate on
no worries, no worries
I think, I think Matthew Perry would be higher for me and I think maybe that would be it.
I think that Friends is just a great show to study in terms of ensemble writing. I think that [00:31:00] it's, I don't have any aspiration to be a sitcom writer, but that is definitely the blueprint. And I think that Abbott Elementary is this generation's version of that. And they are flying.
Flying in terms of what they're doing right now, but that's my ranking but going back to Courtney Cox I don't think that that show utilized what she could do because they just made her this neat freak Who was obsessed with cleaning and she kind of just became a caricature of OCD They kind of all except for Rachel and Ross at the very end became caricatures This character, Gale Weathers, she has a larger than life quality that could be cartoonish in the hands of another lesser actress, but Courtney just puts so many layers inside of her, and I would say that this character, not Monica, is her best work.
do think that her being known as Monica helps you [00:32:00] believe that she could play somebody that cares more about the story than the human at first. she does ha yeah, I do think that that helps aid in the like Yeah, I want, I, like, hopefully they are, like, hopefully they does kill more.
I think she alludes to that. She, like, makes some, like, sort of offhanded joke where Dewey's like, what? Hold on a second. But then I, clearly there's a growth into, and even, like, Talking about how her book sales are gonna go crazy because she's the one who saves the day and, and stops the murder and stuff like that.
I think eventually it becomes, and I'm, I, I haven't, again, I've seen Scream now twice, and I, I've never seen any of the others, so I can't speak to the arc that she goes on
beyond this movie. But it it does seem like she decides to care about other humans a little bit more than the story by the end of the movie.
This movie, but at the beginning here, and I want to talk about two things. I want to talk about the fucking punch in the face that she takes when she gets introduced into the [00:33:00] story. And then I want to get into the rules of horror movies that are established in this next scene in the video store. But do you have, do you have anything about the punch and the final establishment of Gale Weathers before we move on to the movie store and the
No, I just, I adore Rose McGowan's reenactment of that. It's like, I'll send you a copy. BAM! Bitch goes down. Super bitch. It just, it's so funny. It's so silly. I wish that her character had lived to go on to the sequels.
I do want to talk about this next scene in the video store, because, again, I do think the movie tells us that Billy's the bad guy here, but the conversation is between Stu and Randy. Stu is one of the killers, and Randy is I believe he works at the video store. It makes it very clear that he's a huge film buff, he's a huge horror film buff, and this is where they start to [00:34:00] discuss the rules of, of horror films.
And then they, at the party, they actually go over all of the rules of the horror films, but they also talk about motive and like there's, there's always has to be a stupid motive. For a reason that someone would want to kill their girlfriend. And, basically is like, Well he wants to kill her because she's not gonna she's not having Basically, she's a prude.
She's not fucking the guy. So she wants to kill him. A, this is a little true. Which I think is fucking hilarious. And B, as they're loudly having this conversation, And Randy being like, Everybody's a suspect! Like, I could be the murderer! And like, all of these people like looking at them really strange being like the fuck are you talking about and then like going back to their business i thought this was a like a very underrated
scene only because again i think the movie is constantly telling you what it
a good horror
while at the same time subverting your
a good horror film will always tell you what's gonna happen because that enriches [00:35:00] the people like being told what's gonna happen a very subliminal level without it being spoon fed to them because it enhances the rewatchability of anything. Yeah, I think that that's very, very, that's a good catch.
That's also a really good scene because it's doing multiple things. You're seeing how Stu is as a serial killer and you're seeing how Billy is as a serial killer. Look at the looks that Billy gives and look at the looks that Stu gives. I mean, when Stu is told that his parents are going to be told, he's like, my mom's going to be so mad at me.
So. He's definitely I think, honestly, like, straight up, Stu just wants to suck Billy's dick. I truly think that this is, like, a very homoerotic. Like, not no,
Well, it's fair. At one point, she's like, what's your excuse? And he just goes, very susceptible to peer pressure.
Mm hmm. scary movie even made fun of that. They were like, but you made [00:36:00] love to me. But yeah, yeah, I, I definitely think that they're, that's my headcanon,
yeah, I mean we have another, if we're talking about iconic scenes in film history, I feel like one of these upcoming scenes is
Absolutely. Later that night, everyone begins to show up for the party that Stu had suggested they hold in honor of getting out of school so early on. At first, the party is fine as Sydney and Tatum show up soon after so do Dewey and Gale. The party soon takes a turn for the worse afterward as Tatum goes down to the garage to get a beer, only to be cornered by the killer who slashes her left arm as she attempts to escape.
Spotting an opportunity to get out through the pet flap in the automatic garage door, she tries to escape, but the killer stops her short by turning the door on, sending her to the top, and crushing her neck. I don't think that this garage door would have killed her. I don't think that it's moving that fast.
It wasn't moving fast enough. The garage door, Steve,
For [00:37:00] the way
that it
the way that it reacted, it,
It, like,
it would have had to have rocketed. Rocketed, shot all the way
Turbo Boost Garage.
her neck. She would have been stuck and at the bare minimum, it would have been uncomfortable. Tuh!
done. Just her, like, bonking her head against it a couple of times, and then it just slowly goes back down. But if we're playing the game, who was the killer? It had to have been Stu this time, because isn't this Stu's girlfriend in the No, because Stu's in the
in the living room. It's Billy. Stu is hosting. And if you pay attention, like, Billy appears right after
Because at The rules of the horror movie are also happening at the same time, where Randy's explaining to a groaning party that, like, you have to be a vir like, if you're a virgin, you survive, and
don't split up. Don't say you'll be back. Don't have sex.
Oh, yeah, never say I'll be back. No, don't have sex Yeah that because then what Sid goes to go get it or Stu goes to go get a beer and he's like, I'll
And I was [00:38:00] like, oh and also that whole
that whole living room Not one of those sons of bitches looks like a teenager. I was looking just Cackling I'm like who from the grip department. Did they grab just to fill this frame
Yeah. Also, no one at any point goes, where the fuck is
Tatum, Tatum Tatum dies violently and loudly in a garage door and at no point does anybody ask where she
Also
I guess to be fair, they're also getting violently drunk watching horror movies, so I guess no one's
They're getting violently drunk, but a lot of them leave? Wouldn't some of them kind of round to the back of the house and see her hanging from there? I'd be like, help a girl out. Let's talk about the scene with Tatum and Billy, because it was definitely Billy behind the mask.
what did you think of this scene? Aside from the garage door.
she was like, oh,
Mm hmm
She's not a [00:39:00] final girl, dude.
But she fought she wasn't built for though
to feel more tragic. Because it's technically her bestie, even though we don't really get much of a second thought other than her, like, seeing her in horror and then running away. But I think even the fighting back is like, that death was so elaborate, I think they were trying to make it mean a little bit more than, like, Henry Winkler just got stabbed a couple times, and then he was done.
yeah because you knew that
It was almost like a way of honoring the character, in a
It was it was and I think this film does a really great job at something that not a lot of The female victims in Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street or Halloween got to do which is fight back. I love that she picked up bottles She had him on the ropes a couple of times and I when he was on the stairs That was the moment for [00:40:00] her to just start beating the shit out of him Beating I don't understand how she fell into You I think shovels or something and she didn't think to grab one and just Throttle him.
I think the trick to ghost face is that people are so terrified of ghost face that they don't compute That they should just go and fight him.
And so, two things happen after Tatum gets kind of like, wrapped up and brutally murdered in the garage door, is that Gale and Kenny are on the scene, Gale links up with Dewey, and they go and check on everybody, and there's this, like, super icy scene in the house, and maybe a little bit of understanding between the two characters happens, Sidney and Gale, but Gale's really just there to plant a camera and keep an eye on things that are happening. But, something that is acknowledged and then promptly forgotten by the cameraman is 30, like, about a 30 second delay, because he watched [00:41:00] Gale walk out with Dewey and then all of a sudden there's a knock at the van and he's like, Oh, there must be a delay. back at the party, the only person who's concerned about Tatum is obviously Sydney.
So she's going around trying to find, trying to find Tatum and Billy. Clearly having just murdered Tatum intercepts her and is like let's let's go upstairs and talk You know, we don't need to go look for your friend. Your friend's totally fine. She's getting beers. Let's go let's go upstairs and talk The party goers find out about the principal's death.
So they want to go Look because they're psychotic. I believe I believe Sid is the, the ringleader of that one being like, oh, let's go check them out before they, they take them off of the goalposts, which is just psychotic behavior. But the fact that they're all like, yeah, let's do that. Let's look at our principal's body.
That
That's so fucking weird. That's so
The nineties, super weird. Outside, Dewey and Gale are walking together and they almost get hit by all the kids driving frantically to the high school to, again, [00:42:00] try and see the disemboweled body of their principal hanging from the goalposts. And they jump off of the road and Dewey saves Gale and Dewey kisses Gale and it seems like Gale's get the story of Dewey. At all costs, facade is maybe breaking a little bit. She's maybe follow in for, fall in for this cute guy, Dewey, who's 26 now, but he was 25 for a whole year. So, you know, or what was it? What I, I'm suddenly recalling the light. She's like, I was very popular at the 11 to 24 demographic. That's objectively a thing you don't say to people, you don't say that. And then he was like, well, I'm 25 now, but I was 24 for a whole year. I don't know why I gave him a southern drawl, I don't think he was southern.
And in spirit, in spirit he is. In spirit.
spirit. It
And I'll just say that.
but, We'll leave it at that. Wild wiki wild wild list. Anyway. A movie that I would not hate covering on this podcast. I used to watch Wild Wild West over and over again. I [00:43:00] fucking love that movie. Anyway, here's the craziest thing that I think happens in this movie it's the year anniversary of her mom dying. She is almost murdered. L Literally twelve hours beforehand. Three other people have been brutally murdered at this point. Disemboweled. Everyone has left the house. The serial killer is actively on the loose. The cop is nowhere to be found. This is the moment. And, and, might I add, Her boyfriend has just killed somebody and is acting as creepy as ever. And this is the moment that Sydney goes, Yeah, we can fuck. Charlie, that is, I literally went, What? Why now? I like, I guess she's like, I should be over it. Like, I'm moving forward. It's been a whole year. Like, you've been so patient with me. Has he, has he been patient with you? He's literally killing people because he has not been patient with you. And so they, and then they just like, and then they fade to black and it's like, okay, we've [00:44:00] like, he's like, are you okay? First of all, that's definitely something that's a hundred percent act. That's a, that's the most accurate thing that the movie did was him being like, are you good? And sure. Being like, yeah, yeah, no, I think so. There's that little awkward rigmarole that
I'm sure it was very, it was very, it's very sweet of him to check in on her after what I'm sure was just three thrusts. And like, four minutes of sex.
if he was that pent up, I'm sure it wasn't that long. And then, they promptly try and throw, it's, it's almost like he knew that this was gonna happen too, because we're getting into Act 3 at this point. He's immediately stabbed by Ghostface. at this point, if you're watching this for the first time, and I remember my reaction watching this for the first time, going, oh, okay, I guess it wasn't him. I wonder who it's gonna be, because I guess it wasn't him after all. And she, she attempts to escape, so she thinks that Billy's dead now, and you have this very obvious, like, he turns around and has, like, the Mission Impossible moment, where you [00:45:00] see the fake blood all over him, and you think it's coming from out of his stomach, and she gets pushed out. of a window
all right, so
So everything from her getting pushed out of the window to her coming back into the house for that kitchen confrontation is chef's kiss chef's kiss
very good. It's, it's very well done. She sees Tabum's body wedged in the pet door, and this is like that moment of shock, and then Randy, who's watching, just watching television like a drunk asshole, being like, he's right there! Behind you, the killer's right behind you as Ghostface is approaching behind him.
I thought that was fantastic. And then the dumbass camera guy sees this all happening, forgets that there's a 30 second delay. So after he brings Sydney into the van, he's like, Oh, I'm going to go see the killer. But the Ghostface hears all the screaming, leaves Randy, not killed, and runs out.
So as soon as the cameraman opens the van, [00:46:00] he gets killed by Ghostface. I believe this Ghostface is,
I I think It's stew
No, no, this game's face is Stu. It's Stu, because Billy's dead. Right. Not me absolutely knowing these answers. And then, so he gets killed, and Randy's still alive at this point. Gale and Dewey In their make out session, discover that there's, the car next to them is actually the car of Sydney's dad. So, now we're thinking, oh, it's Sydney's dad who's the killer, cause he left his car there, so he's the one fucking shit up right now. Which would make sense. He's going on a spree a year later. So they find the car, They run back to the house, they think that the dad is the killer. And then he's come to the party to continue the spree. They spread out, and they get attacked, now Ghostface is on them. Gale attempts to leave the scene in the van, but finds the dead cameraman, like, in this super creepy, like, the blood going over the windshield, sliding down on top of the van, and she's like, oh [00:47:00] no, not great. And Dewey, Who went inside, is revealed to come out of the house with a knife in his back, so you think Dewey's dead. And inside, Sidney finds Randy and Stu, who are the only two people left. And they're accusing each other of being the killer, one of them is right, but neither of them actually knows. And she's basically just like, fuck both of
Important to note,
it, which
not no to her doing that, not no. Also important distinction
between Stu and Randy. Randy doesn't ask for the gun, Stu does. That's something I caught. He's like,
Oh, give me the gun, Sydney.
baby! Sidney, baby, give me the gun, I gotta
protect us!
Mm hmm.
It was good, that's a good call, that's a very, very good call. Billy then reappears, not dead, because, you know, he didn't even get stabbed. And Sidney, very egregiously, she goes from making a very good move to a very [00:48:00] bad move, because he has successfully convinced her that, He's not the killer, and Billy now has the gun, and he, he opens the door and lets Randy in, who's like, Stu's gone crazy, and Billy, quoting Alice in Wonderland, goes, We all go a little mad sometimes, and then shoots Randy in the shoulder. I, I think right before he shoots Randy in the shoulder, he says something to the effect of like, Oh, I've never been so glad to be a virgin before in my life, and then he gets shot immediately after saying that. Kind of play again to the rules trope that they're going against the whole time. Sidney totally gobsmacked, and this is when we start getting the truth revealed to us.
That Billy's blood wound is corn syrup, a common movie horror trope for productions when they're using blood. And turns to Stu who has the voice changing box and the truth is revealed that the murders were planned and carried out by both Billy and Stu and not only were these murders carried out by Billy and Stu, but the original [00:49:00] murder of his mother was done because Because Sidney's mother was having an affair with Billy's dad, and this is what caused his family to break up. So Billy is also exacting his revenge on Sidney and her family as sort of like, a revenge for that. And I guess part of that revenge was having sex with Sidney before he tried to murder her. But, technically like, If, if we're going by success count, technically he was 75 percent successful.
If we're, if we're going by the amount of, like, he was pretty close, he just didn't get to kill Sidney. He's,
He could have killed
pretty good job until he started part, he Could have. It's always the monologuing. it's
it's
He should have just shut the fuck up.
I'm the Underminer!
No capes! Oh man, it was, it was a lot. They talked a lot. And look at the way, look at the way that Stu puts his [00:50:00] head on Billy's shoulder after it. He's totally
god, He's such a
such a vet.
he gives what's, what's that? Gilbert Gottfried as the parrot in Aladdin. He gives
Oh my god, you read my mind, Yago.
Yeah, he does give Yago. Yeah.
Oh man, for sure, for sure.
But I think one of the other things that I want to actually give Billy and Stu credit for is they actually, and it kind of makes it even funnier that they just completely unravel like this by the end, is that they actually successfully Framed Cotton Weary as well, who had nothing to do with it, really, and they just, like, knew that this was happening, so they were able to kind of pin all of this on him, which is very impressive. They abducted Sidney's father, and it was his cell phone that they were using to make these ominous calls. Of course, there's no proof. Caller ID back then so you're not gonna figure out these numbers that are being called and [00:51:00] who's gonna trace back to her And obviously they they traced it back to her those calls from her father's number I guess that was something we skipped over is that the police another thing the movie does to think that it's her father is that the calls that get traced back, get traced back to her dad.
So that's, they abducted him, they got his phone, and they then start stabbing each other because at the end of the day, they're just like, crazy.
they, are they crazy or are they calm? Are, are they just. Consummating their relationship. I think it's one. I think it's one, but I'm not gonna say which
if that, that's, that's their way that they could appropriately be inside of each other in
1996 cause it
because no homo because no
back then. No homo, but I just wanted to
stab you a little bit just to see
I just wanted to feel
to see how it feels bro. they start stabbing each other.
So this is like, this is the other version of the monologue. They both monologued and then they started stabbing each other [00:52:00] because they were monologuing too much. And I think Stu starts getting a little, oh, well, part of the reason why they were stabbing each other was to make it look like they were attacked by the killer and that the killer got away.
But then they got a little bit too into it. Stu got a little jealous. Billy stabs him so many times that he starts to bleed too much. And he's like, I'm gettin I'm gettin woozy, man. I'm gettin real woozy, bro. Not really feelin good, man. And then Sidney is able to manage to escape while they're dealing with Gale. And Sidney is able to stab Billy with an umbrella out of a closet, which
What is she the penguin?
to the floor almost dead for the second time. Total Colin Farrell take notes. You've got a character to embody very soon, and Stu reappears trying to fight Sidney before we get another iconic death scene of the television getting crushed on his head, so Stu's finally gone. And then Billy gets up. And he [00:53:00] begins to, for the, the third time now, I guess, I guess this is the first time he's been like egregiously injured. I guess the first time he was not, so this is the, the first time he gets up from being seemingly dead. This is another horror trope, by the way, is the killer seemingly being dead and then coming back to life, and then seemingly being dead and then coming back to life a bunch of times and he's choking Sydney. And, Billy, like, he punches Randy to the floor, and he gets shot down by Gale, who remembers to take the safety off that time. And, Randy, very smartly, being like, according to horror movie law, he's gonna, he's gonna come back to life for one last jump scare. And, to their surprise, Billy makes one last grunt and opens his eyes, and then Sidney just shoots him right in the fucking face. And that is the end of Billy. Like, no hesitation. And I think that's another credit for Sydney, is that she doesn't even hesitate. She just Stone Cold. She just Terminators that shit. Just puts one between the eyes. And Dewey seemingly is [00:54:00] dead. Even though, spoilers, Dewey's not dead. And Gale makes an impromptu report on the events.
And the authorities finally come to the scene. And that is the absolute frantic, not mess, cause it's really fun and actually really well done. Conclusion to the movie that is Scream, Charlie, I'm stoked that we started out with this one I think that this is a good if you are not a horror person And you can deal with a little blood and maybe being stressed out for like the first 10 or so minutes I think you can do scream I think I I think I may be balked a little bit too hard at this and now I'm probably gonna regret it when I Go into the rest of these movies with my defensive slow word.
So
good job by
Yeah Did that shit on purpose? Yeah scream
did that shit
Scream is A really brilliant film. I have thoughts on all the sequels. I think I've enjoyed every sequel that came after the original, but the original is just so [00:55:00] perfect. I think it's a masterpiece. I don't really have any notes about it because look at where we are.
We are how many years later and we're still, we're about to get Scream 8. Like,
I know
Scream
It's the Fast and Furious of horror
Ah, it really is, it really is. everything I had to say about this film I've already said, but I think it, it does everything that a horror film should do. I think it's really well paced, the writing is impeccable, the twists are good.
I love the final girl character, Sidney Prescott, it's, it's a lot. And you laugh at that term because of socio politics?
I don't think it's a
No, it's a horror, it's a
this movie makes it
It is one of the highest compliments in the horror genre. It's a compliment. Like, trust me.
well, I, I agree with you because I think this film made a point of changing the perception [00:56:00] of it. Because they, they state very clearly in the beginning of this movie that the final girl is just like the, the one who just happens to make it to the end. By whatever reason that isn't necessarily because she's smart strong intelligent
Oh, they're all strong, smart, and intelligent. Like, so many great, like, Laurie Strode from Halloween. We're talking Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street. We're talking
These are all movies
i've never seen so you can definitely yeah, i'm looking it'd be wrong. are all great. Ellen Ripley from Alien. Like, all Final Girls. And all are the, the reason why I'm protective of Final Girl as an archetype is because they are the blueprint for my favorite character of all time, Buffy Summers.
That's why, like. Snaps to that shout out to Slayer to Slayer Fest, but gon learn today! So I was thinking it would be fun for our ranking [00:57:00] to do Jiffy Pop.
Jiffy pop. Why Jiffy
Because that's what Drew Barrymore fails to make in the cold open.
Oh, why did I, oh my God. Why did I think of, I literally just pictured like a peanut butter popsicle
because like Jif peanut butter and pop. That's great.
ALright, so I'm giving this 5 out of 5 Jiffy Pops. No notes.
It is an absolute classic. If you want to learn, also read the damn script. If you want to know how to do horror well, read Scream and watch it.
you by experience, but that's what we have Charlie for. I'm gonna give it four and a half Jiffy Pops and I, I think I would need to not feel uncomfortable 100% of the time if I was gonna truly enjoy a horror movie or be thrilled by the fact that I was uncomfortable and that did [00:58:00] not.
100 percent happen in this movie. So it's gonna get, it's gonna get four, which I also understand is like the point of horror movies. So I understand that I'm probably like not the target audience for movies like this, but who knows maybe I'll get surprised by something. So I'm gonna give it four and a half Jiffy Pops, but I'm glad that we watched it and I'm always glad. To talk about this stuff with you, because that is more than half the fun of doing it. So thanks as always for being your usual scream queen self.
This has been great.
Yeah, man, it's stoked to be back with you for season two. Again, what's time, what are seasons? Well, we're going to record when we can record. And when we take breaks, you'll, you'll like it because we'll be back rested and rejuvenated and maybe even with some sweet blonde hair that's for you, YouTube watchers.
So that's gonna do it for this episode of Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. Don't forget, you can follow us on the Instagrams at Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff pod. This is spooky season. We've got a bunch of spooky [00:59:00] ass movies coming your way. So hang out at the Instagram, hang out wherever you get your podcasts or on the YouTube. If you haven't subscribed to Charlie and Steve, watch the fun YouTube, and you're literally watching us on YouTube right now. I'm not entirely just. Hit that like button hit that smash that sub button. Like Billy and Stu would have smashed each other in 2024. Then all of those people wouldn't have died. It would have saved a lot of murdering, but for myself, Steve Selnick and my good friend, Charlie peppers, we will look forward to seeing you on the next one.
Goodbye,
Bye.
