Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi friends! Welcome to Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff, where today we are watching The Craft, and it's embarrassing how many times I had to practice The Craft before I was getting it right.

I was definitely calling this movie something very different as we got into the preparation for this movie. But anyway, joining me as always for the spooky month of spooky movies is my good friend Charlie Peppers. How are you doing today, Charlie?

a fan dam tastic. Also, what were you calling it? Oh!

I think I was calling it like the Ah, shoot. It was definitely a c word that I was not that c word, relax. But it it was definitely the wrong name, but I've got the craft in my brain now. So maybe it was the coven? I don't know, something close and it

It's probably the Covenant, the male version.

Yeah, the Yeah, that movie's way down the line for sure.

And speaking of witchy, we do have another guest today. We want to welcome Kevin Gadzelinsky onto the podcast. He's the host of Words of the Witches, which is a [00:01:00] charmed extended lore podcast. I can't wait to hear what that means. Well, I already heard what that means, but I want all of you to hear what that means.

And he also is the host of Solving for X, which covers all things X Men. Ever heard of it? If you listen to this podcast, you've definitely heard of it. He's covered X Men in the 90s animated series, a little bit of X Men 97. And as we're about to talk about a little bit of X Men Evolution that little show that Charlie loves more than anything else in this world.

Maybe the craft is up there though with x men evolution It's definitely a tough fight, but Kevin welcome to Charlie and Steve watched up Thanks for taking some time to join us on this little podcast of ours.

Yay. Thank you. This is super exciting. I've, you know, been kind of following on the sidelines. So it's now nice to be a part of it.

Yeah,

that for us. Absolutely love that for

wanna just sing Kevin's phrases for a second. I, every time you post an update on your podcast, or just on any project that you're doing in general, I feel like I see your inner child shining through and it makes me so happy. [00:02:00] I'm like, look at Kevin! Like you just have no idea. Like, I'm always thinking we would have been friends when we were kids, just because of how deep you go in on your interests.

That's the same way that I go deep on my interests. And I want all of our listeners to know, That he just made the most incredible, incredible charmed musical, and if you want to

talk about it for a second, of course, baby. I, since I was a little boy in 2001, have been dying, dying for there to be a charmed musical.

See, me too!

too, I was like, what would they sing about? What would they get up to? You know, because I think some of the emotions run. Really high in that show and charmed like I like to say I love Buffy and I love charmed But I consider them two different entities But what inspired you to make a charm musical Kevin?

Well, like you, I always, like, [00:03:00] resented the fact that there was never a musical episode. Like, even Seventh Heaven got a musical episode.

So, I'm like, come on, where's my Charmed musical? And, you know, for one of my podcast episodes, we did a, one of the novels called Pied Piper, and at the end, I had an activity where my guest and I Talked about, you know, songs that would happen if, just for fun, if Charmed ever became a musical.

Who would sing them? What would the song be called? What kind of song would it sound like? And just kind of spit rolling and one of our listeners was a musician, heard that, wrote us demos based off the songs we made and sent them to me. And after I got those demos, I'm like, Okay. Well, we have to make it happen now that you showed me what's possible. I started writing a script, he worked on the songs and we came up with a thing and we made our own little radio musical on the podcast, cast it and everything. It was amazing.

Incredible. Oh my God. That's, I didn't know that you did that. And I, I, okay. I'm sorry to say I've never watched charm before, so maybe this is my cue to go and watch it, but what a, what a job to [00:04:00] go and like go scrubs musical on a, on a show like that. That's so cool. And you can find this on the internet right now, if, if you want to.

people wanted to go and see it for themselves. All right, cool. Well, that's going to be all up in the show notes. So if you're listening to this and I'm not even going to be mad if you pause the podcast to go and listen to a scrubs or a scrubs. I'm just on the musical episode, go and listen to a charmed musical as done by Kevin and crew.

That's so cool. And so just kind of rolling into that. Talk a little bit about your show, Words of the Witches. It's like a charmed extended lore podcast. You just kind of mentioned one of the, I think the novels that you're, you're again, things that I am learning right now. I guess this is my, you learn something every day. Talk about your podcast about charmed in that, like what the extended lore means. Cause I don't think you hear that super often for a show that isn't like super space sci fi, like push up your glasses, nerd sort of thing.

people don't, aren't always aware, but there were 43 charmed novels that came out starting in 1999.

And then there was [00:05:00] a season nine and a season 10 comic books that continued the series after the show ended. We cover all of those issue by issue, book by book, and we break it down for those who may not have access to them. And you talk about, you know, how they relate to the show, if they're canonical, could they fit in there? So it's very exciting and my goal was just to cover everything under the sun if it's charmed and published. So currently we're covering the guidebooks. Next we're going to be covering the official magazines. But the musical I actually put it between the comics because I figured that was a great way to get all four sisters involved without interfering with lore that's already established. So I used what came before, what came after, and kind of wedged it in between there and yeah, super

Brilliant. Very cool.

Such a good listen, because I think that a lot of people sleep on how deep the lore of Charmed is. It really is a intergenerational family saga, if you really look at it, and the family saga starts all the way Back, not even on [00:06:00] Melinda Warren, but like Charlotte, her mom, who gave birth to her, and then there was a huge, huge, huge legacy.

But before we dig into the podcast, I wanted to fly a theory by you. Have you

ever heard the theory that the reason the three cousins, two of the three cousins, have elemental powers is because they're actually descendants from pages past life? the Enchantress

like I

Evil

Yeah, the evil Enchantress and I think that now thinking that I'm like no wonder Paige's soul got re recycled because my favorite thing about the charm mythos is the reincarnation that happens.

I think I wish that they would have played around with that a lot more. I love that They were cousins and then they were sisters and my head theory is that Phoebe's daughters are the reincarnated souls of [00:07:00] Prue, Patty, and Gramps and that they're the new charm ones that's

kind of what I choose to believe and Patty's definitely in the middle, but

PJ Payton Parker, which you don't get to see until the

comics. So there you go.

to see it till the comics it's so fantastic, but what's your

favorite have you heard that theory? What's your favorite fan theory?

Oh I never heard that one. That's really cool. And I like it because even though, you know, Phoebe's past life, Pearl Russell was doted as the bad one. None of them were very respectable people. They're all very cold and kind of just like, so I feel like they're all had that little evil inclination in them, which would make sense. Yeah, favorite fan theory though. Oh god, what did I think of? I like the idea that Ames was going Yeah, I'm going back over here. Going after the elders, going after the white lighters, so that he can gain access To the ghosts, because in the upper regions, there's two different sections of the upper regions.

There's the elder's domain, and then there's the spirit domain. And they [00:08:00] don't usually cross, but they do have communications. So I feel like Ames is trying to get the powers of the orb so he can go feed off souls,

and use them to gain more power. And use them as, you know, a currency of sorts. So

Yeah.

that's really cool. That's really cool. Steve, thank you for letting us go down that rabbit hole. But AMs.

no, this is. This is exactly how I understand now how other people feel when I find someone else that loves Something like kingdom hearts and we just start kind of talking in our own language and that was beautiful. I loved it

Yeah, yeah. But let's dive in. I got a lot of shit to say. Shall we begin?

Beautiful. Well, we're going to keep the witchy vibes going.

Of course you can listen to words of the witches and solving for X, which stay tuned after we're done talking about the craft. We're definitely going to. Roll up our sleeves and talk a little bit of X Men before we go, because how could we not? Ba na na na na na na. Little fun fact, Charlie, I don't know if I've told you this, and I'm a fitness instructor for a job.

And anytime I make people do [00:09:00] alternating X Pikes, I will say, sing the X Men theme song to yourself. And I, I truly don't think many people get it, but every now and again, I get a giggle. And, And

it's good and it makes me feel good about myself

Let's talk about this movie, which got my fitness going in a different way That was inappropriate, but i'm gonna keep it. This movie called the craft released on may 3rd 1996 keeping those 1996 vibes going big year for scary movies, I guess screenplay by Pierre Filardi and Andrew Fleming, directed by Peter Filardi, starring Robin Tunney, Firuza Bulk, Nev Campbell, Rachel True, and Ski Ulrich. And Charlie, this is, the enthusiasm for this one has been at an all time high for you, so I'm gonna let you take our hands and guide us through this, this witchy adventure.

I would love to guide you through this witchy adventure. So, quick background. I was in elementary school when the trailer for The Craft [00:10:00] came out. And what's really special about The Craft is that The Craft helped sculpt a lot of my sensibilities when it comes to media, film, and TV. Because The Craft came out in 1996, then Buffy premiered the spring of 1997, then Charmed premiered, I believe 1998.

So it was just, I consider The Craft, Buffy, and And Charm, the trifecta of, okay, I am drawn to stories that are about female underdogs just taking back their power. And I really love this movie for many reasons. I think that it does a lot of things well. I think that some parts of it have aged excellently.

I think some parts of it, mm, we'll get into that. But I'm gonna get started

so the plot of our movie, four outcast teenage girls at a Los Angeles high school pursue witchcraft for their own gain and subsequently experience negative repercussions. Our [00:11:00] first scene, It's the girls chanting, we see the titles of the film, and we're slowly pushing in on them at their altar.

And we close in on Nancy, who I'm gonna get into, I don't think Nancy is the villain. I think Nancy is the anti hero of this movie, and I think that The movie gets a little confused about what it wants to do with her at the very end, but the fact that we push in on her and she looks up at the camera, the movie wants you to know who is the second protagonist in this movie pretty much.

What are both your thoughts on Nancy?

I think she walks so Regina George could

run. So you think you're really witchy.

Yeah, that's good. I mean, I feel like this is a whole trend of those kind of movies. You got Jawbreaker 2 with Eros McGowan in there, which is very similar. So yeah, I feel like there might be, maybe she's Yeah, she's very power hungry, but there might be, she probably got more than she [00:12:00] realized and maybe she has some regrets.

Maybe she has some trauma of her own. So,

interesting.

Well, yeah,

it's foreshadowing.

I,

think she looks the most stereotypically like One of those, like, goth emo is into witchcraft sort of girls that you would have thought, were in that 90s high school trope, I think. Well, I mean, Nevs Campbell is there for a very specific reason, which we'll get into.

And then the other character, I don't remember her name off the top of my head, is, like, she just looks normal to me. But, like, she's the one with the, with the heavy eyeliner and the piercings and sort of looks like the, the most stereotypically like the person who would be into this kind of stuff.

She's the X Men evolution rogue.

Yes,

I mean, not wrong.

men evolution rogue, which is why I fuck with her so heavy, but let's get into her counterbalance. Nancy's counterbalance is Sarah Bailey, a troubled teenage girl with unusual abilities, who we see moving from San Francisco to Los Angeles with her father and [00:13:00] stepmother. An unhoused person breaks into their home, taunting Sarah with the snake.

Sarah's Mortified. So steve, to th HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the unhoused people were not in San Francisco. So you can take your takes home. Thank you very much. it was in L. A.,

it was in LA! That was the movie!

The 90's new.

knew, I was like The 90's knew that we were gonna have a massive housing crisis. Though, like, I'm like, maybe because I used to be a community organizer focused in housing justice, whenever I see an unhoused person treated Like a villain or like a vagrant.

I'm like don't do that. Don't do that that's insensitive, but I still

did I thought that it was a It was a nice jump scare. Would you consider this the movie's first jump scare?

Yeah, I think so. And maybe I, maybe it's not the fact that he's homeless. That's terrible. Maybe it's more to have to do with his mental [00:14:00] state. You know, maybe he's not quite all there, you know? So

Stranger in your house with a snake. Maybe not the best move for introducing

yourself.

yeah It's

like the Tom Riddle origin story. It was a lot

Oh my

god.

doing the most?

Do you know anything about the

ha ha ha ha ha I think he would like to. Nancy, Nancy has entered the chat. She, she like turned around and was like, hmm? Alright, so moving

on. At school the next day, Sarah meets a trio of outcast girls who are rumored to be witches.

Bonnie Harper bears burn scars from an auto accident. Nancy Downs lives in a trailer with her mother, an abusive stepfather. And Rochelle Zimmerman is a black student who is subjected to racist bullying by a group of white girls. The girls worship a powerful earth I know, a powerful earth deity they call Manan.

Alright, so I got a fun question for both of y'all. [00:15:00] In high school,

what would you say your, like, were you a Sarah? Were you a Bonnie? Were you a Rochelle? Or were you a Sarah? Like, where were you? Like, what was your high school personality?

I was a Bonnie. I was, I was very shy.

like, I had my select group of friends, but like, I had to warm up to people first, and so like, I'm just like, Heheheheh I don't know. Yeah. Heheheh

I think I have to say Rochelle only because she was the only one doing anything generally sporty. In this, in all of these scenes, I was, I was one of those sporty kids, although I did do the theater in the music as well dealt, dealt with a decent amount of bullying. Obviously, it wasn't blatantly racist bullying.

That was shocking. I was not, I mean, I should have been ready for it considering that this movie was in 1996, but right when they started, like, yelling it in the middle of the pool, I was like, all right, Cool, we're just gonna like really hammer home that this is a bad person, and [00:16:00] this is how we're

like, no, Marsha. No, Marsha. Don't.

Like, please stop, please stop saying that. But yeah, I don't know if I would be called po your question is popular, definitely not a popular kid, that's for sure.

In a high school, I would say Bibi. I, I don't know how to put myself into one of those four boxes. I didn't really have a click. I kind of floated between all of the clicks and did my own thing.

And I was definitely nerdy. I was in the closet, but I think I got bullied a little bit, but I evaded like a lot more of it just because I was I don't know, quirky or like fun and could like talk to anybody so like I was a nerd but I was like Oh, hey, what's up? What you doing? What you doing?

You know, so I think it was like kind of on the outskirts, but like Doing my own thing. So maybe like Rochelle ish Rochelle with like some [00:17:00] Sarah underpinnings

You're like a puppy running from group to

group. Hey. Right.

aww, yeah, it's giving that, it's giving that. So, One of the characters I want to focus on is Rochelle, because I feel like Rochelle is the most underdeveloped character in the movie. She struggles with racism at school, but we never see what her home life looks like.

We see what everybody else's home life looks like. And it's very interesting, because in the script, Rochelle is dealing with an eating disorder. And that is something that we see her doing in the second scene of the movie. She eats a bunch of doughnuts at breakfast while her dad is really coming down hard on her.

Like, okay, how many laps are you getting in and the swim team? Are you moving up on the swim team? Who's your competition? You have to be fierce. You have to get in with the popular people. So I liked seeing in the [00:18:00] script how hard Rochelle's dad was being on her. And I also. Liked this description that the script had for her family.

It goes an attractive well-crafted. Well Coifed Black mother is just finishing a pan of scrambled eggs in a very upscale kitchen. She moves to the tastefully decorated breakfast nook, which contains an extremely handsome black family. Father, brothers, sisters, and Rochelle Mack, 16, model pretty and thin.

She almost makes her familiar gray catholic school uniform look glamorous. And I like this intro to the character. I think that the group could have done with having another strong personality inside of it, but I don't know if it quite would have worked. So on one hand, I'm annoyed that she's underdeveloped, but at the same time, I'm wondering if the film had enough bandwidth [00:19:00] to really go as deep with her and Bonnie as they would've wanted.

What are your thoughts on Rochelle as a character? Like, what what do you walk away from this movie thinking about her?

You know, I've always liked her. It's cool to know that this, all this stuff that was cut from the script would have been interesting. But at the same time, I kind of was into her more because we didn't know much. I was always looking at her and just wondering. And so maybe that's maybe, I don't know if that's just me, but I was more attracted to her because I didn't know much.

I'm like, she's so mysterious. So I don't know.

Yeah, maybe they just, like, looked at everything that they had, and they thought that just the racist bullying was enough to be her motivation for wanting to do the way Because it's they're trying to set up the three characters motivations for doing the spell and calling on Minon as they're about to do, so maybe they thought that they were on the verge of making [00:20:00] her too busy compared to the other three, and of course, again, 90s, I'm sure they're like, Oh, it'll be fine if we just slim this down a little bit.

I feel like it was at the, at the juxtaposition of Hollywood and the vision,

Yeah, yeah, I think Rochelle is definitely I agree with you, Kevin, and I agree with you, Steve. I She's definitely a character that there's a lot to discern and a lot to learn about. I think that she has two very subtle, shining moments in the movie, and one of them is a special effect that not a lot of people realize is a special effect.

After she sees the girl's hair falling out in the shower and it's getting really bad, what

I yeah, in the mirror, she looks at her reflection and her reflection looks away at her, looks away from

her. And I thought that was very interesting because the scene that we'll get to momentarily of all the girls saying what they want [00:21:00] from the coven, Rochelle says that she doesn't want to hate the people who hate her.

And I think it's very interesting that she frames it like that because I think only someone who has a good soul would be aware of the fact that they don't want to. get corrupted or eaten from the inside through the outside through how people are treating them. So I think that she's a good person who's finding herself and I think the

second moment that she has in the movie really supports that.

There's a moment where they're all driving in the car and Nancy and Sarah are in the front and Bonnie and Rochelle are in the back and Nancy kind of this throwaway line is like, stop trying to win them over. They don't think, and Rochelle actually responds to that. She's like, bitch, and I thought, oh, interesting.

[00:22:00] She has something to say about that. It's like, no, no, no, wait a minute. I do have thoughts, but then she kind of fades into the background again and kind of goes with it. In that moment, I found so interesting, and I only realized it this last watch.

Hmm.

Yeah, I just think, again, that's just so, so Hollywood for her to be the character that gets the first clipping. It's like the, I mean, we're in Horror Month, like the old trope that the black character dies first. I think in this case, a little bit, this character gets some of their exposition decreased because maybe there was a mandate to do so, or they just decided it wasn't as interesting as the storylines of the white girls, the headliners. That's my cynical way of looking at it. That's just how I feel about things these

No, no, I feel

that. Not, no. I agree with you, and it's a yes and. Yes, that's more

prone to happen to, Yeah. Everything you just said. But also, I believe that good writing isn't just dialogue, I believe that [00:23:00] it's behavior. And yes, a lot of her dialogue and her backstory got cut, but in her behavior, I think Rachel True is An underrated actress because just seeing her facial expressions and just

seeing the way that she like takes in information I think that she is an important person in this group because you have Nancy, who is the most powerful personality, and then you have Bonnie, who is very shy and very wallflower like, and I want to talk about Bonnie in a second.

Then you have somebody like Rochelle, who, if things were a little different, she would be a popular girl. She's bubbly.

She's like, oh hi, you know, like she's the one who apologizes for Nancy. She's like, oh Nancy can just be like that Don't worry about it. Also whose house does Sarah run to after she gets essayed?

Later in the movie. It's Rochelle's house.

You know, I think [00:24:00] that also says a lot,

I think there's a lot of subtle th I want to say there's a there's you're right. There's a lot of subtle things that Rochelle does that make her magnetic, and I think that's why I was always drawn to her, because she does little things that make you just want to know more, and you really kind of feel for her and like her.

You. You do? I think, I think, she's a sweetheart. I think she should have

had more of a mind of her own. But like I would be friends with her also. She's one of the only black people. I'd be like, hi . So moving on. Popular. Jock, Chris Hooker, shows interest in Sarah, which she reciprocates. When Bonnie observes Sarah levitating a pencil in class, she and the other outcast girls are convinced that she can complete their coven as the fourth.

Completing an air, water, earth, fire circle and making them all powerful.

Can I just say how fucking wild it is that she decided to levitate a pencil in the middle of her crowded class? Like, what do you expect? That's you asking for somebody to see you. [00:25:00] Yeah, like, what are you doing? Absolutely insane move.

I love this scene, and I also want to talk about Skeet Altridge. Is it Altridge?

Probably Ulrich. Or

Ulrich, whatever. Call him Skeet

I'm just gonna say Skeet with his face.

Skeet. motherfucker.

Oh, yeah, he can, he can do a few things to me, the way he looked in this film.

Not the character, just the actor. He's so damn sexy. Until we start seeing, and still we start, until we start seeing how he behaves, then I'm like,

so, interesting thing about this character, I think that love spells in this world, in the world of the craft, love spells kind of take infatuation and warp it into obsession. I think, one, that the performance that Skeet does in this movie is so good because we see so many different layers of this character and in the beginning it's mostly through [00:26:00] looks like this is somebody who is desperately trying to fit a status quo in school.

I think my favorite bit of acting from Skeet in this movie is the look that he gives Sarah when Sarah says that she doesn't want to go home with him. And it's such a look of, I'm feeling a lot of intense emotions coming up and none of them have anything to do with you, but I'm going to throw you under the bus cause I don't know how to talk about it.

Everything that I'm feeling right now. I thought that that was just a very It was just a very interesting moment What did you both think of that moment when? They were making out and then he was like you want to come back to my place and she said Hmm

Well, I'm sure no one's ever said no to him before in his life.

And he's probably a result of the toxic social standards of men, you know, like, I can't show emotions. I can't have anything. So he's not, he's very out of touch with [00:27:00] his own feelings.

Come and watch me play football.

yeah, he has an entitlement that he's just given by birth. And so it's, it's having all that thrown at him and the expectancy is, is, you know, shattering some of those.

Yeah, there was, there was so much palpable, like, how dare you. And I, I mean, as he was walking away, seemingly cool with it, I was like, he wasn't cool. Like, Arrested Development narrator voice, he was not cool with it.

Yeah, and I

think the way that this movie talks about the fundamental truth of balance in life is also beautiful I think did chris Get What he dished out times three. Yes, I think that Sarah casting that on him was his karma built up of just disrespecting so many young women in school, but I think that the flip side of karma is also true.

Like if you were playing the hand that dishes out bad energy or bad karma, you can [00:28:00] dish that out, but it's gonna come back on to you, and I think This is where the movie's message gets a lot muddled, because I don't think that anyone deserves to be assaulted or violated. So the fact that the movie said, Oh, Sarah cast this love spell, so her punishment is him trying to force himself onto her.

I don't know if I feel comfortable with the film's reading of that. I think that's where then the film's message gets a little muddled, and I choose to just chalk that up to bad writing. But yeah, I

do really enjoy what they play around with in the Chris character here.

is a witch putting love spells on me?

maybe, maybe, I don't know.

Do you understand

that reference, Charlie? That was a very white reference I just made. That was a Taylor Swift lyric that I just changed a little bit.

Taylor Swift is a white woman?

[00:29:00] the

Eh.

porcelain goddess, okay? Wait, is that white? Is porcelain white? I was just trying to think of the whitest

thing

not just white, it's that white gold, that Michelle Pfeiffer,

It's that

white.

that good, good so

It's sparkling, shimmering,

splendid, shiny, shimmery

ha ha ha ha, yeah

yeah, for sure. Okay.

walk home from school, Sarah is harassed by the same unhoused guy who broke into her house. I don't know if he was following her, this was really creepy.

And he tries to scare her. With the snake again, I don't know if he has a snake on the sidewalk, but when he chases after Sarah, he is immediately hit by a car. The girls believe their combined will caused it to happen, which strengthens their bond. It is also revealed that Sarah once attempted suicide.

So this is where the meat of the movie starts to kick in. I love anything about female friendship, and I think [00:30:00] this is definitely The craft walked so mean girls could run. This is very, there's four of them, there's four of the mean girls click. I love a lot of these early scenes, and I particularly like if you just watch how Nancy's attitude towards Sarah shifts from scene to scene.

I just want to know, do you think that Nancy genuinely liked Sarah?

Not, maybe not right away. I think she was intrigued, interested. She had her interest piqued but I think she did start to have a connection with her. She started to, you know, and they have lots of moments of their bonding,

you know, when they're, you know, throwing popcorn at each other, playing light as a feather, stiff as a board.

And like, there's all those experiences that really solidified their friendship. So there was something real there. There had to be.

I don't like this scene and I don't know why. So I was kind of quiet during, while we were talking about the unhoused person because I was waiting till now to bring it up. I don't know why he's in the

movie. We don't get [00:31:00] any explanation as to why he's there, why he has the snake.

We kinda get why snakes matter a little bit, because snakes show up later in like a pretty wild way. But like, there isn't really any connection between him and Manon, him and the witchcraft, him and the magic. He's just there to be someone that we recognize from earlier. And then he's just dead, and then we never hear anything about it ever again, and, and that's somehow their connection to the witchcraft, which I feel like you could have just done by the fact that she was spitting a fucking pencil into a desk, and then they go and play Levitate Rochelle, I think, like, two scenes later, so I just, I don't know why it was there, there was no Point to it, other than to create trauma, in my opinion.

So that I just was very confused about the unhoused person's inclusion

Oh, and the way that the screenplay described him was pretty egregious. They were like greasy dreadlocks, and I paused at that point. I was like in bed reading and kind of half paying attention, and ya boy froze. I was [00:32:00] like, greasy dreadlocks. I'm like, the fuck you trying to say? The fuck you trying to say, screenwriter?

You know, but, I I don't

What do you mean, you people? I

mean? But I'll, I digress, but yeah, that was very palpable in the writing of it. I think that Nancy did like Sarah. I think that, You know exactly how their relationship is gonna go in that chef's kiss, chef's kiss of a reaction shot where Sarah comes up to them and Kim and she's like, Hey, can I sit with you guys?

My favorite shot, my favorite shot in the movie is just that non verbal kiss. Three shot of all three of the girls looking at her, Neve Campbell. You can't even see her fucking face She looks like Violet from the Incredibles. She looks like Violet. She literally is

like this. That's why yeah She's like this and you see Rochelle Just kind of [00:33:00] looking at Sarah like she wants this be like oh Oh, hi, but she doesn't quite know how to react and you see fucking Nancy Completely icing her out, you know, because I think Nancy just looks at Sarah and thinks oh, you're one of these bitches who's been bullying me my entire life You have money your uniforms cleaner than mine.

I don't like you, but here's the thing I think Had the writing been different, we could've had scenes of them going deeper with each other. Because the scene where Nancy sees Sarah Scar and she's like, Pump Rock, you're intense. I like you.

I'm intense. Let's talk. I would have loved more conversations just one on one about them just talking about life instead of witchcraft because I think Nancy is an addictive personality and I think that how she shows up in [00:34:00] friendship is she either doesn't fucking care for you or when she does care for you, she goes deep.

She definitely strikes

me as one of those people who's like

Nothing or all in and I think that if we would have gotten more scenes of them bonding The scenes of them in conflict would have been a little bit juicier almost on a buffy and faith level Of it's intense because y'all used to love each other

Yeah.

Yeah,

thank you, thank you, yeah this movie it's so great what do you think Of the moment Like, if you were Sarah in this moment, and Nancy sat down, and she starts talking about Manan, and how he fills you up and makes everything melt away, would you have been fucking terrified?

Yeah.

was like, what are you talking about, Jesus?

I have to go over the pronunciation because don't they say Manon in the show? They like make it like

Yeah! They like, put an

accent on that shit.

Yeah.

So, I'm like, wait, I've never heard

The French can

before.

[00:35:00] off.

Manan.

Yeah.

it cuz

Monomena! Ha ha

So so just don't close it off.

Yeah, maybe

it's bec maybe it's because they're in a Catholic school, so they pronounce it ma none.

Like, there's nuns?

ha ha.

Yeah, that was a fun juxtaposition. I just think it sounds like someone who's way too into Jesus talking about Jesus. It's like those people that are having convulsions on those videos and those like deep south Baptist churches. That's what it reminded me of. It's but like just the devil instead.

Yeah,

yeah.

yeah.

One and the same.

I'd be like curious, you're a little intense for me, can we like dial it back a little? So I probably would be a little freaked, I would definitely be intrigued, I'd definitely be curious about what she's talking about, but I would also be freaked out because she's going way too heavy on it.

room, you're probably already ready to look for what she's about to say. So I'm sure Sarah was ready for it, especially, you know,

It's like, it's [00:36:00] this, it's her, it's Nancy.

Yeah. She can make things move with her

Yeah. Also, also, clock the look that Nancy gives Sarah. When Sarah's like, Oh, I make things happen by myself all the time. And Nancy's like, Get out of here. And she gives

her a very, A very like, jealous look. It's so, This actress is so good. I think three things are happening with her.

Can I trust this person? I think I like certain things about this person outside of the witchcraft piece. Then third, Is this bitch more powerful than me? I think you're just seeing her switch between all

three of those modes the entire movie And if you just look at how she's looking at Sarah within any given scene You know exactly where she is.

Feruza Balk is so fucking good. She's so talented I don't know if it's the editing. I don't know if it's the [00:37:00] directing I don't know if she was like drinking like something in her coffee But like Just, as a director, just seeing all of her modes, I find it to just be a masterclass in acting, her performance in this movie.

And and her look in general almost seems otherworldly. She has that very

unique look in all everything she does. So it's very cool

right. right. I completely agree. I completely agree. After a date with Chris, Sarah is upset that he spread a false rumor that they had sex. Later, Sarah goes on a field trip with the girls, who initiate her into their coven. Sarah casts a love spell on Chris, Rochelle casts a revenge spell on racist bully Laura Lizzie, Bonnie casts a spell for beauty, and Nancy casts a spell for power.

What did y'all think of this scene?

So one quick, one quick thing about this is that I, you notice that, and I think it's a setup for what's about to come. The three I believe Sarah and Rochelle and Bonnie all cast something [00:38:00] very, very specific. Sarah wants, for some reason, Chris to be in love with her. Rochelle wants something very specific to happen to Laura Lizzie, her bully. Bonnie wants all of the issues with her skin to go away. She was thr I mean, very quick lore dump. She was through a horrific accident. She has horrible burns all over her body that like, which is why she covers herself up so much. Nancy is just like, I want to be all powerful. I just want to be the most powerful bitch on the planet.

That's very general and it's very like, give me everything. And I think that that's like I got very

Like

Nancy.

didn't hit my microphone. But yeah, exactly. But so I, I think it's a very, it was a very interesting difference in something that I clocked right away. It was like, the three of them asked for something very specific.

Nancy's just like, I want everything. Give me all of it. Like, she's the person who gets three wishes and her first wish is a million more wishes. And I think it plays to your point that you were saying before, that she's jealous of Sarah's power.

So she wants to leapfrog her in some way without saying that.

Mm

Yeah, I'm gonna make [00:39:00] a very quick charm reference. And I know Kevin you'll get this.

One of my favorite bits of world building and character work is with Phoebe who Seasons one and two Phoebe is my favorite character. Then season three is

Prue's season. Yeah, but in the very slept on episode In Animal Pragmatism, in the

Season 2 episode

Yeah, yeah, season 2, episode 13. Oh my god, I love you. the part where the girls behind Phoebe are talking about a spell and then Phoebe's ears perk

up and she's like, oh no no no.

It's like,

It's like,

no, no,

oh, and

You gotta fix

like, no, no, no, move this, over here, then move this over here, then do this.

I wish that they would have done more moments like that in the

show, just seeing the mathematics and the iamic pentameter of spell

Spells are an

They are an equation and Phoebe has such a mind for it because she's a writer, but the thing that she says that always stuck with me, it's like, no, no, no, you have to say what's lacking [00:40:00] first.

And then you have to say what you're hoping to gain while you're invoking the power. And that's something that I think Nancy was missing in her spell when she said, Oh, I want to be all powerful. She's not saying what's lacking. I think that if she would have been more specific, if she would have said, I want me and my mother to be free of this. Impoverished situation that we're in right now, you know, I think that then she would

have had more success with her spell But yeah,

it was very She didn't seem to be grounded in what she was saying But then I will say if we're on for is a bulk acting facial expression watch She gives Sarah such a look of pure love in this scene If you cut to her reaction shot where Sarah says I want to just love myself and allow myself to be loved by others.

We immediately cut to [00:41:00] Nancy, not a mistake, and Nancy just gives her a look like, I know what you mean. You know, and I think that that was like a really, which is why I do think that there was love between other people because I think they saw each other and I think in that scene, whether or not she was aware of it, Nancy was seeing Sarah and seeing like, That they share a similar pain, but whereas Sarah was like looking inward, Nancy was just looking outward and kinda, which again, speaks to her socio economic position.

I think when you are drowning, you can't help but do this.

Really love Their slow motion power walk when they start getting everything. I've played that clip so many times

that's Drawbreaker, that's Mean Girls, that's Heathers, that's everything.

everything. It's so good. You can see

it's X Men

Evolution

x men evolution

Men Evolution, X Men Evolution takes this

Walk on the wild [00:42:00] side. Yeah It

it's so good. I love that. I love that. The spells are successful Chris becomes infatuated with Sarah, Bonnie's scars on her back miraculously heal, Laura begins

losing Take my scars, my ninjas, take my scars Laura begins

that, we skipped over that, but just very quickly, that needle poking scene was fucking brutal. I actually, like, I had a hard time watching that. That was terrible. So good job by Neve Campbell being

It

was, it

And I always, I always thought about Halle. I always felt like Neve like being Halle Marie Combe's sister or something because they look, They seem so much

They seem so much alike, and like, even their temperament, you know? It really is It's shocking. Like, the kind of transformation she goes through in this movie, and they look at what Nancy's result for her spell is, it's that Nancy causes her stepfather to have a fatal heart attack, enabling [00:43:00] her and her mother to cash in on his life insurance policy and move into a luxurious high rise apartment, so seeing a How all of the girls shift and transform out of after they get what they want is very, very interesting.

I wanna know, do you think that this is Nancy's heel turn into being a villain? This scene where she gives her stepdad a heart attack and doesn't even blink about it? Woah.

Well, if you go by Charmed logic, yes, because it's always after the first kill that you, that you become evil forever.

So yeah, it's, it's definitely the start of something.

I mean, if there's a hero or an anti hero that I can liken her to that I think I'm starting to think of right now, it's very Venom y. I think Eddie Brock got really into the power that the symbiote was giving him. And so it allowed to paint his sort of, his actions, his, his attitude, how, how evil he was, and by the end [00:44:00] of the movie, I don't know who's Spider Man in this situation, but you're able to kind of, she's able to be defeated and talked out of the, the, the evil, the, the evilness that was inside of her gets removed, so it's very like she catches the symbiote, but she doesn't hate it, she really likes what it does to her, and so she's embracing it and letting it make her more powerful.

I feel the same way about Nancy in this moment as I do feel about Carrie in the prom. It's kind of a good for her moment. Like oh, okay.

Good for you, killing all them kids.

Fuck them kids!

I was like, I

mean, he, he, he wasn't like a good person. So like, it's hard to feel bad.

Yeah, i it's really, it's really hard to feel bad. Nancy becomes power hungry and encourages the others to join her in a rite called Invocation of the Spirit, despite being warned against the

spell. UH2, that is very powerful. 25. I think that that that was actually the funniest. I don't know if that was [00:45:00] supposed to be a

Yeah.

I don't know if that was like a joke in the

movie, but for her to be like that's very dangerous 25 like what the fuck this is it?

She's like, how much, how much? Five figure discount. Eh. ha. Ha ha

like, what the fuck? I'm like, this is so, it is so wild that that is a book just hanging out in the

open. Like, could I, Chris could have gotten that book in Invoke the Spirit. It's just so, like, it's so,

That should be in the back room. That's like a backroom book.

know she didn't have nothing

The advanced. Yeah.

but like an altar. That was just, I found that to be hilarious.

ha

this lady could see, if this lady could see the future, she knew that bookstores were dying very soon. So she's trying to sell anything she can, any way she can. It's just,

Big summer blowout.

man.

You know what she was doing?

Harness the powers of the dark arts,

25.

you know what she was doing in the back room? She was writing Harry [00:46:00] Potter. I'm just gonna will JK Rowling out of

existence. Like, Lyrio wrote the Harry Potter series in that back room. She's like, I got some

I was like, don't, don't, turf this woman. Don't put that on

her.

know, I know. On the cutting room floor, she tells Sarah, Avada Kedavra, these hosts. It's like, it's like, no, no, no, it's like, Sarah, Sarah, baby girl, baby girl, I got this spell for you, I got this spell but, yeah, so silly. I think that in this scene, again, going back to the scene in the car where they just watch Nancy invoke the spirit, I think that we then get to see why Robin Tunney is such a good acting partner for Feruza to have.

If you look at the way that Sarah's emotions are never up here, they're always kind of

hovering Right.

here, all of her acting choices. And I think, I don't know if that [00:47:00] was the directing or if that was her instinctually, I don't think this movie would have worked if Sarah was also all the way up here.

With Nancy and it was a screaming match. I think what's so brilliant about Robin Tunney's performance. It's not the showy performance. It's not a showy performance Feruza is the one who's just Fucking going for it, but Sarah and I'd say that Sarah if she were to have any element It's earth and in every scene you see Sarah You Computing and taking in information and regulating herself and going Maybe we should think about what we're doing with this just being The most chill person like the fact that of all people nancy wants to get mad at sarah.

It's like Sarah just wants to vibe and hang. Like, Sarah's really chill.

She's so [00:48:00] grounded. Didn't want to do anything. She was just such a go with the flow. If this movie would have been made today, Sarah would be a stoner. I just think Sarah is just so fucking chill. Even the way that Sarah calls Chris on his shit.

She doesn't scream at him. She's like, dude,

what the fuck?

Why did you do that? Even when she says,

fuck you, it's not like, fuck you! It's just

like, hey Chris. Fuck You

You know what Sierra is?

There's no, he's sorry.

He's sorry, he's sorry. It's none of that.

just like, she's just like, fuck you. He's sorry, he's sorry, he's

sorry. Let's move on to that, cause the amount of times I've paused and I've done that, just like, with my night cream on, with my retainer in my mouth, just like, he's sorry, he's sorry, he's sorry.

It's just like, numer

crash,

boom.

I know. The ultimate gay man revenge story. So [00:49:00] the following morning, the other girls see Nancy walking on water with beach sharks and other dead animals littering the shore. In the days that follow, Nancy becomes increasingly devoid of empathy and engages in risky behavior that endangers her life and all the lives of others.

Also, the spells the girls cast eventually lead to negative consequences. As Bonnie becomes aggressively narcissistic, Rochelle finds Laura traumatized by her baldness. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA It's

It just keeps

just Let's talk about this. Do y'all feel sad for

Yeah, I mean, no,

\ this is the scene also where Rochelle's reflection

looks away from her. Right. Is that like where, and then you kind of have this moment of like, you feel, well, I don't know if you feel bad for Laura Lizzie, but. She clearly feels bad for Laura Lizzie, and I [00:50:00] also think she starts to be like, Oh, okay, this is about, like, coming back to me three times? Like, it's gonna be three times worse than this? I think she's hearing that right now, and she's going, oh, look, it's, it's quite literally, Oh, look, it's the consequences of my own actions. That meme personified.

And the whole reflection thing, it's almost like she's ashamed of herself, or afraid to look at herself now, after, it's like, ooh, yeah, I love

Yeah, yeah. I think that Rochelle is a good person. I think that Rochelle is a good

person. I think that doesn't excuse that she is being pretty much made victim to somebody's really blatant racism that's deeply fucked up, but at the same token, like going back to her saying, I don't want to hate other people.

Like, Laura Lizzie's getting what she put out, times three, but also, I think that it goes back to that old saying, When you hold hate for anybody, it's like holding hot coals in your hands and expecting a different [00:51:00] another person to get severely burned. You know, I think that Rochelle,

Mm hmm.

of the four of them, I would say the people who were reincarnated the most are probably Sarah and Rochelle because they seem to have a little bit more depth and knowledge of themselves than the other two girls, So I would say that that is at least my, that's my interpretation of what her inner workings were during that moment. So, Rochelle finds Laura traumatized by her baldness and the obsessed Chris attempts to sexually assault Sarah after she rejects his continual advances. Very hard scene to watch.

Did you recognize where this

was shot? It was Griffith. Yeah, I, like, it's where I don't know if you've ever done this with me, but it's that back side of Grithith facing towards the valley in Burbank where that, she literally runs up a trail that I've run like dozens of times off of that.

It's where Jonathan London and I used to turn off of the paved path right there. That's like, I [00:52:00] think only service trucks can get up there now, and then that's like, the direction up the trail that you're on. It was really, I mean, other than just watching a very physically uncomfortable scene, it was kind of weird to be like, oh, and I know exactly where that's

happening.

that scene was just harrowing. Also, behind the scenes tidbit, because I listened to the audio commentary for this podcast because I just,

I fucking, I love this shit, Apparently, the scene with Chris and Sarah is the scene where a bunch of Rob and Tunney's friends decided to show up on set to watch filming, and I'm like, that's pretty weird, but, okay.

need

Ah!

features.

Kevin, you have

to listen to you have to listen to the audio commentary.

have to listen

media!

Tell me what you think. That's a cool

I, yeah, I love my physical media.

Right, that

the win.

the new blu ray release. The art is fantastic.

That's incredible. Alright,

to pun

Yeah.

Amazing.

Okay.

To punish Chris, Nancy uses a glamour spell to disguise herself as Sarah and attempts to seduce him at a party. [00:53:00] She is interrupted by the real Sarah, who pleads with Nancy to leave with her. Upset at being deceived, Chris accuses Nancy of jealousy, not wrong, which angers her.

Then she uses her power to kill Chris by throwing

him. JEALOUSY YOU DON'T EVEN EXIST

You don't even exist to me! Yeah.

just her boots Dragging on the floor as she

moves toward him is so, I wanna,

I wanna replicate that

so witchy too. It's like,

The boot she

has, like the sound, I'm like girl you better

fucking eat You better vanquish the source. That was like so fucking

dope. I loved it. I was here

for it.

You better

You know, like was it fucked up? Was it fucked up? [00:54:00] Yeah, but

Did a human die?

yeah, do you think that Chris's apology of, I'm sorry, was sincere?

No,

think it was it was out of fear. It was a fear thing.

Yeah.

That dude didn't have one sincere thought this whole movie.

I think that it was definitely interesting also if you look at it from a life having poetry to it, for that to be the end of his life, Him getting cornered and ambushed by two women he wronged that turned out to be witches and one of them like levitating toward him like, fuck you, Chris Hooker.

It's just a very like, you know, I thought that that was

one of my favorite moments of someone's wig getting snatched on media. It kinda, that is his karma. But also I do feel, Life is complicated. I do feel bad for him.

There's the whole part of being under the spell too, that's, that's, that, that element is a [00:55:00] little Askew and makes you feel a little sad,

it makes you feel a little sympathy because that wasn't, but then again, the film, if the writing was a little bit more cohesive, I would've understood how I was supposed to feel about Chris, you know? It didn't even,

if he would've started opening up about things in his life to Sarah, it's like, no, but I want you to know about me.

Like, if there

were some more scenes of

that, and there was like,

There's pieces of the puzzle that aren't

Yeah,

It also, and I don't want to, like, hover on the themes of sexual assault for too long, but if you look at the logistics of how the movie is, it technically says that the sexual assault is her fault, because it's because of a spell that she put on

And

which is not the way that we want to, like,

we don't want to victim

kind of prop those

things up.

Yeah. And so

fucked up.

I wish that there was some way of being like the spell is broken and he's, that is when he pursues the unhuman thing that he does. And so I wish that they didn't cross that line under the [00:56:00] spell, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, it would've been really, really interesting to see that. But,

more of an icky factor. Yeah,

they're definitely more of an icky factor. Speaking of icky, let's shift focus to Bonnie. I have a hard time believing that both Rochelle and Bonnie would out of nowhere, out of fucking nowhere, be like, You know what?

Fuck you, Sarah. We're turning on like I thought

that that was so severely underwritten. This is where I think the editing serviced rachel true's performance more than nev campbell's performance I think that nev campbell did a lot of things that again weren't a showy performance like if you looked at how she was hunched over with her hair and if you look at Her physicality, when Nancy's describing Monon, like, she seems to be the only one of the four girls that's like deeply into it, she kind of does this borderline, it's kind of sensuous, the thing that she does with her body, if you look at it, it's like he [00:57:00] just takes everything away, and there's this shot of Bonnie just being like And I found that so interesting, and

then when you see the way she acts, when she is beautiful and her skin is clear, and just how she's

And she, and she changes her, her, her attire is completely different. showing more

showing more skin, just being completely narcissistic, I thought that that, I

completely believed that she would turn on Sarah, because she really isn't thinking for herself in that moment, and she doesn't want to be complicit in the demise of her new privilege, her pretty privilege. I think that Rochelle turning on Sarah is a harder pill for me to swallow, cause I think for as far as it got, for Rochelle to not say anything I call bullshit.

That was too much. What do you both think?

Well, they try and hammer in the, like, you betrayed the coven by, so Sarah tries to cast a binding spell on Nancy to prevent her from, like, continuing to harness her power, [00:58:00] so they use that as the catalyst for her to be like, you betrayed the coven, you know what they do to, like, at this point,

they technically,

a witch betrayed her coven, they

Yeah,

Bye!

that's, you know, I mean if we're going by witch lore, if we're going by witch lore in Wandavision, they were definitely like the same sort of thing, like you betrayed us, you gotta die now. And so, I mean, I guess if we're gonna connect the witch branches there. But I, so I think that they just try and be like, oh yeah, this is the reason, and they still have their powers at this point, like things are still happening for them, so it's not like they have all of their relative faculties together, I don't think any of them are seeing reality in any sort of way.

Even though they're starting to see the consequences of their own actions, they're also still like, we're trying to harness this power, you're trying to break it from us, so we have to remove you. I can I I get why it's quick, and at this point we're kind of like, diving headfirst into the resolution and the climax of the movie

If this script were on my desk, and I had to put my screenwriter [00:59:00] cap on, and if I had to give notes on the script, I would advise the writer to add three scenes, because I think, there, it's not that I don't buy this, it's kind of like Daenerys suddenly snapping at the end of Game of Thrones.

Not no, but

how did we get here? Like, not, my whole attitude about that, not no. Not no, baby girl.

But if we were to add three scenes to the craft, I think there should be a scene where Nancy talks the girls into it, they're just hanging out, and Nancy suddenly is like, So,

we should fucking kill Sarah. And you just see the other two, like, it could even be funny, they're all

shit talking her, it's like, I never liked that bitch anyway, she's fake, she's so stupid, she's corny, okay, let's kill her.

And they just

Like, wait, what? Have a conversation.

Yeah,

and then they're like,

oh yeah, sure, sure, sure,

like, wait, what?

sure, cool, [01:00:00] and what I also would have done,

another scene I would have added, I would have added a scene of either Rochelle and Bonnie, probably Rochelle, approaching Sarah outside of the other two girls, like, yo, look, so some fucked up shit's probably about to happen.

And I think that you should Like, keep your head down. Could you not do any more binding spells on Nancy? Like, I think that Rochelle would have at least attempted to be like, Yo, Sarah, I'm just looking out for you. Could you, like, not do that to Nancy? Because she is getting a little unhinged right now. The fact that we didn't have a scene of Rochelle and Bonnie taking that in, we didn't have a scene of one of the girls attempting to just peacekeep a little bit more, and Lastly, , I think the scene where Nancy is like go upstairs and check on her I think that scene should have been longer and you know how I think it should have [01:01:00] been longer I think that Rochelle and Bonnie should have been talking behind Nancy's back and Nancy comes in it's

like oh, I see what's happening Go check on her and Rochelle's finally like this is you're fucking doing the most right now.

I think The moment, and I'm really skipping ahead, but if people are listening to this podcast, they've seen the movie. I think, seeing someone who you claim to be a good friend of yours get their wrist slashed, and you just pretended that their family got killed, then they're running upstairs. What human being wouldn't want that?

Be like, dude, I can't do this. I think

even Bonnie's narcissistic ass was like,

whoa. Whoa, you know, so I would have loved to have seen them. I think it even should have happened while they were still floating in the air. You should have slowly seen Bonnie and Rochelle slowly come down to earth in that shot.

Like, you know, [01:02:00] like, I think that would have been interesting. What do you both think?

Like that a lot. I like, you know, adding those dimension and the nuance, the characters and it would fix a lot of things, make it even so much more impactful movie.

Yeah, yeah, if it were written today, especially with how a lot of things are framed as just underdogs and marginalized groups against the system, this movie would've ended. And I wanna, I'm jumping ahead, but I think we've covered most of the good plot points. The ending fight scene would've been different.

It would've been an intervention. And I think the intervention would've been, Nancy goes too far. And when Sarah goes up to her room, Bonnie and Rochelle join her and they're like, We're so sorry,

how do we fucking fix this? Maybe they encourage,

Get me medical

attention.

and they give their powers back to Sarah, and then Sarah uses that to invoke Manon, and she has her

showdown with Nancy, and

maybe Nancy, like, And Sarah have a [01:03:00] moment like Madeline Pryor in Jean Grey had in the third episode

of X Men 97, where Sarah is just taking Nancy through a bunch of moments.

I think a movie written today would have done that, and it would have gone that deeper, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about 1996. What did y'all think of this magical fight scene? What did y'all think of all those snakes?

Well, yeah, first I mean the setup is like the trio is invading her dreams and she's tormented by like all of these cockroaches are pouring out of the vents and snakes are growing out of like everything and everything and everything. And, and there's insects everywhere and rats are falling on her shoulders.

It's very like, this was the special effects budget? Like, all, the special effects budget was in this scene, basically. But she has betrayed them. They are overpowering her. We, we have to get to that moment of it seems like it's all over. It's very, like, look to the east on the dawn of the fifth day, like, it's always darkest [01:04:00] before the dawn sort of thing, where they, they have to get her to, like, absolute end point, and that's when She can manifest mana for herself and sort of fight back and, and prevent everything from happening.

I thought it was, I mean, for a movie done in 1996 that didn't really flex many special effects up until that point, I thought it was

It holds up,

I mean, the snakes coming out of her Nancy's fingers was super funny. That one looked, that was very, like, Animorphs, if that's,

not anamorphs,

old books. A little, a

little Animorphs!

books Get outta here Chicky,

always loved the flat clothes and she's like Tricky Tricky Tricky Tricky Ha ha ha

ha Ha ha ha She's

like And she sees them like laying and she's like ahh And they're just like AHHHHHH They kick Yeah It's just It's just It's just fun It's fun

Oh yeah

the kick. The kick was

ha

Haha ha

ha Ha ha Ha

Out of all of Out of all of the magic, she just gives her a fucking [01:05:00] dropkick to

Right.

guys, like i don't do corsshbullying, like, bitch, you've been tormenting me for half this quarter like, i'm just gonna kick you also, nancy definitely could've stabbed her and all the time, it took sarah to be like

AAAAH

Yeah, absolutely. I

to a kick that long since mighty morphin power rangers It took For fucking ever, The dust is settled, Sarah is the greatest witch in all the land, and we cut to the next day. Sarah's in the back of her father's truck just looking at different stuff. Doo doo doo, doo doo doo. The director said, Action, but pretend you were doing something else. And the actress was like, Oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy.

Look busy, look busy. That's what it was giving, but I still love this movie.

Then, the two girls come up behind her. They're like, Hey girl and this is what I, [01:06:00] this brings down my rating. I think that this just makes them look like such fucking phonies and it feels like character assassination for Bonnie and

Rochelle to, after all of this, to be so casual, so casual and so familiar and say, Oh, hey, you knew that was a joke.

Oh my god

I tell you, if Sarah were black.

funny! Uh

very funny. It would have been like world star hip hop just world star

Oh

world star Jerry, jerry, jerry So, it just, it would've gone, I'm just saying, I'm not saying it would've been different, but I'm saying it would've been different. so she makes lightning come down, and she's like, Try Jesus, not me, bitch. And the scene is just, She just flexes on them, and she's like, Y'all don't wanna end up like Nancy, and Nancy's all like, I'm flying, I'm flying, I'm flying, and we, we [01:07:00] cut to black. What do y'all think of this movie?

I agree, the interaction at the end always bothered me, I'm like, something doesn't feel right. I don't like the way that it ended up, and there's a disconnect. Either there had to be a bigger confrontation, or an amends, or something it was a little awkward.

It was hella awkward.

maybe they were just trying to make them be like, these were just the peons the whole time. Like, these were the pawns. They didn't have much of their like, they didn't have

enough of themselves developed to do anything but follow the most powerful person. So I, now that Nancy's off the board, maybe they're just trying to like, although the hyenas technically did turn on Scar by the end of the movie, but very much so like, how that like, the henchies always follow The one who has the, the, the vibes, the chutzpah, but Sarah was very rightfully like, now get out of here. I have a take about this movie. I talked about this take with Charlie a little bit before the movie. And we're, we're obviously doing Spooky Month, and, and this movie has spooky [01:08:00] vibes to it, but, I, and Kevin, maybe you agree with me on this, I don't think that this is a horror movie. I, I walked into it thinking I was getting, like, a horror movie. And this was actually closer to like, I, I think I called it something

Okay, okay, Steve,

by, I'll try to remember what

on. I'm gonna tell Kevin.

What did I call it?

telling, Kevin. Steve

I just don't

said that Kraft reminded him of Hocus Pocus.

Oh yeah, I thought that it was closer to I thought it was closer to a Hocus Pocus than it was to like, like, a hardcore like, horror movie, you know what I'm saying? Like, it felt more like a, like a Mean Girls but with witchcraft.

A, sort of like how everything is like, like, like diehard on a boat, like this was like Mean Girls with witches. Sort of thing where I was expecting more of like a Hardcore, like, gory, like, horror element sort of movie And I was surprised that it felt more like it could be a Like, I wouldn't be surprised if this movie was on, like, TNT during the Halloween [01:09:00] season And stuff like that. I think it's way I think it's way more starter level scary than I was expecting, so I was just saying I want to show my partner the movie now because it stars women and it's not really that scary so she'll probably

be in. But yeah, but all that said, that's not to say that I didn't enjoy it. I enjoyed this movie immensely. I had a great time watching it. It was very 90s, which I always love anything that's very, very 90s to a fault, and so I had a great time with it.

I never really considered it a horror movie either, but I definitely don't think it's hocus pocus. It's hard to figure out where it fits because it's it's neither of those extremes but it is

It's a fantastic teenage movie. I think it's a great teen movie.

I'm gonna play, not Devil's Advocate, I'm gonna play Manon's advocate. Ha ha Ayyy, full circle, full circle. I, I think, if you've experienced a friend breakup, this movie is definitely a scary movie. I'm like, ooh, Boundaries [01:10:00] again? Ee, ee, ee, ee! Okay, so, if we wanna, if we wanna,

That's fucking

Oh god, it's fine.

Oh my

god

let me live, let me live, BB.

See, I never had the experience, So I'm just like, oh, people, cool, girls, get it. Right, yeah.

quickly And I guess it's early in her career So maybe she didn't have as many choices as she did before because did this come out? It came out around the same

time as scream.

Right before scream, but like you're essentially filming those movies around the same time if they're coming out in the same year You don't necessarily know that one is hitting before the other So if we're calling scream the catalyst point then maybe it's a little bit before she's more on the radar But I was very much so like especially her talking about how she's hideous or she doesn't want people to look at her I was very much so reminded of the [01:11:00] moment in Barbie where the narrator's like, Note to the director, if you're gonna have someone talk about how they're not confident in their looks, maybe don't cast Margot fucking Grobby in this role. It's just like, yeah, maybe if you want someone in this role, maybe not Nev Campbell. Maybe not literally one of the most beautiful people

from the

know what though? Steve, I think I've known so many beautiful, sexy men in LA. And I just gotta tell you, like, if you don't feel it,

That's fair. I mean, yeah,

yeah, I mean, not no to your take, Nev Campbell's beautiful, but I think, and again, this is my director hat, I believed her when she said,

Like, no one will look at me.

I also think that if you feel that way about yourself, that's what you give off, and people treat you that way, so I think with her, it was probably this feedback

Confidence is sexy,

and if you

That's true.

yeah, she she didn't have that confidence.

Yeah, that and she dressed like the girl from The Ring,

Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, this is like another hot take. I think that for [01:12:00] all of Bonnie's like, swagger that she developed, I think that for this entire movie, she stayed a virgin and she didn't like, put herself out there.

She kind of weirdly gives me an asexual vibe. I don't get, like, sexuality when she's doing that. I think it's just her voguing and her performing femininity to a certain extent.

It's like when guys start lifting and that becomes their personality. Bonnie is like the guy at the gym who drops her weights and doesn't re rack. But, I could talk about this forever. Going, going into this. Our rating. So Kevin, we rate movies 1 out of 5 something.

Do you wanna do the honor of picking? We, for Batman, we do Batarangs. For X Men, we do Sentinel Heads. For the craft, do you wanna come up with what we're gonna do 1 out of 5 for? Cause I didn't think about it.

Okay. How about

pressure!

I know like, what's witchy and in the theme you can do. 1 out of 5 invocations of the spirit.

Yes! Yes.

Oh my god. [01:13:00] Spirits, yeah. I like

yeah. Alright, cool. So, let's rate. I'll go last. And, Kevin, as our guest, you go first. Out of one, one out of five invocations of the spirit, how many do you give the craft?

I'm gonna give it I'll do a 4. 4. Because I do think it's entertaining. I do think it's uh, a fun movie. It's definitely of the time, which I love movies of the time that give me those, the feel of those times, like the 90s feel, especially because that's my time.

Yeah, I think the characters are really fun to watch.

I love the magic. There are some things that we could have, we talked about that could have made it better. So I'm going to give it a four.

I'm gonna evoke three and a half spirits onto this movie. I, I definitely enjoyed it. We've already covered the things that we've, you know, were either of the time or not. Hinging on your 90s point, the soundtrack to this movie, so

soon is now?

It's just, it's so good,

in there.

Any, yeah, anything with Our Lady Peace in it is gonna be A plus in my book, [01:14:00] so the 90s vibes are very strong probably would visit for the right circumstances, glad I, I'd never seen it before, I don't know if we made that very clear, that was my first viewing of the craft, so, enjoyable time, three and a half spirits are called upon for the craft.

That's amazing. I'm gonna say, Ugh, I wanna look at it and be objective, but it's such a big part of my life, I can't. It's just, I,

I can't,

I can't, it holds too much value.

I'm gonna do,

we all have

Ugh, I'm gonna give it 5. I just think that this movie, it's not perfect, but it's perfect to me. Like, it just, I'm seeing it with such rose colored glasses.

This movie brings

Okay, Mary J.

Blige.

A diva!

D. Va, D. Va, go marry.

That's

literally, that's a Mary J. Blige, that's a Mary J. Blige line from a J. Cole song. N Nobody's perfect, but you're

perfect for me.

Thank you so much for coming on, Kevin.

That was fantastic. Thank you for [01:15:00] listening to us run our

mouths. This is lovely.

All right, so before we go, and of course, thank you to Kevin for coming out and joining us on the podcast. You can catch Kevin on the Words of the Witches podcast for everything Charmed extended lore. We got a little, little sprinkles of the Charmed lore inside of this one today. And then of course, Solving for X, your general X Men podcast. We're gonna, we're gonna definitely have to have you back and talk about X Men at another time. We're just about at time for today, so we are gonna wrap things up for today. Kevin, please tell the people where they can find you, your shows, your inevitable social media presence to promote all of said shows.

Where can the people find you? And of course, we'll also have all of that information in our show notes.

Cool. Yeah. So everything's on Instagram. So we have the words of the witches on Instagram. The solving for X is a little complicated. It's solving4x. xmen. tas. Yeah, I don't know. So that's the

And that's why we put hyperlinks, yeah.

Yeah, And then we're on YouTube for the Words of the Witches as well. If you want to [01:16:00] follow my personal Instagram, it's KJEEZY87. And that's just everything that I do. You know, sometimes I'm singing, sometimes I'm naked, sometimes I'm just posting my cosplays. So, yeah. I guess, more often than not, it's Cyclops from X Men. I do that a lot.

Love

and I'm going to be doing that at Uncanny

Experience coming up. I am a

Bearded Cyclops? Yes, please, daddy.

Yes. And I'm also going to be singing at a Mary Mutant musical. I'm

going to be singing two songs of Cyclops for a musical panel there.

So

yeah.

Cyclops go to karaoke song would be Eye of the Tiger.

I like it. I like it.

Yeah. Beautiful.

But up, but up, but hey, all right, well on that that's we can't do anything else This is how we have to close it after that banger of a joke

from Charlie dad a little dad joke to finish it up Hey, I loved it. I laughed. I laughed hard. Just give me my dad hat and put it on a little bit tighter Yeah, I deserve that a little bit.

Okay, cool. Well, thank you Kevin for coming out Be sure to check all of his [01:17:00] stuff out. Thank you all for listening to us and for myself Steve Selnick and my best I'm just just calling you my bestie. I don't know why I call you my

good friend You're my bestie.

and my bestie Charlie Peppers. I love you too, buddy we will look forward to seeing you on the next one.

Goodbye friends