Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi Freds, welcome to Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. And today we are watching Batman, the animated series. My name is Steve Snick and I'm joined today by my good friend, but don't make him angry or else he's going to sick. Captain Clown on you. He's Charlie Peppers. Charlie, how you doing today?

I'm good. Also, sicking Captain Clown on anybody is a cruel and unusual form of punishment.

It's scary, and

we'll get to why it's scary. That's that's early Terminator vibes right there. But hey, we're here to watch Batman, the animated series. We're coming at you today. In our second episode, we're covering the episodes, nothing to Fear, and the last laugh, which we're very excited to talk about.

But before we start talking about it, I need Charlie to talk about something else that's very, very important to his life. And when something's important to Charlie's life, it's also important to my life. We had a big release in the superhero world. Maybe about a day or two ago. We're kind of timestamping this because this is gonna come out a little bit later than [00:01:00] the date that we're actually talking about it, but a big video game release just happened and Charlie has spent the last 24 hours pretty much doing nothing but playing this game.

And that game is Spider-Man two for the PlayStation five. So Charlie, I want to clear out, I wanna give you some space to kind of talk about the Spider-Man video games because one of the first things you ever had me do, and I came to your apartment for the first time was you sat my ass down on a couch and you made me play Miles Morales.

'cause I had never experienced that game before. Talk about the game in general, how you've been experiencing it, what you think of it so far,

Yeah. And I wanna, it's been 48 hours. It's just so, I feel both delighted, empathetic by how much time I've spent doing nothing but button mashing and web swinging. There's web wings that you can glide through in the city. It feels like you're flying. You can switch between Peter and Miles. And what's really great about this game is that I felt rusty [00:02:00] when it came to the combat controls, but.

Something about playing a game nonstop for two days. I now feel like an expert and I'm just throwing bitches left and right, and just to the point where I feel almost a little bad when I enter a battle Now I'm like, oh, cool. You know, when you, you discover the rhythm of a video game because you're so in sync with it, I feel that way about the Spider-Man video game, and I think that that is why with all three of these, I tend to come back to them because it's a very well made game and there's a fluidity to it and a very almost ballet like quality to all of the things that you can do as Peter and Miles.

I can't wait for you to play it so we can talk about it when you come down. This is probably in my top five of the best video games I've played my entire life,

Wow. Well now I want you to name the top five video games you've ever played in your entire life. Do you think you can do that on the spot?[00:03:00]

On the spot. I

I know.

I, I definitely just dropped that on you without any warning.

Oh, man. All right. I would say that my favorite video game of all time is definitely X-Men legends on the PlayStation two. That,

a pull.

yeah. What a poll. I've had that disc since 2004. I've kept it in good condition. I play it probably once a year. It is so damn fun. You get to customize your own characters. I would say number two, best video game I've ever played is going to be to Raider, the revamped one for the PlayStation four just because of the game mechanics and everything that they do in that.

I'm gonna say number three is, and I'm gonna put them on an even keel with each other. Last of us one and last of us, part two. Third best video game. A lot of PlayStation. Third best video game I've ever played. Fourth best video game [00:04:00] I've ever played. I'm gonna say super Mario Brothers, three for the Nintendo.

'cause it brought me so much joy as a child and it's just so damn fun. And to round it all out, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick a fighting game. My favorite fighting game of all time. I'm gonna say that that is Ultimate Mortal Kombat three for the Super Nintendo.

Dude, I have so much respect for that list. That's a fantastic list.

you. Thank you.

I, I'm gonna be an only child and I'm gonna quickly give you my five in no particular order. 'cause I was also noodling around immediately when I asked that. I, so you're the PlayStation guy? I am the Xbox homie. So I, my first answer has to be Halo three. That was such a moment in my life. I literally had a girlfriend break up with me because I played that game too much And she, and she was like, yeah, this is a, you're, yeah, you're a boy.

And

for you. She [00:05:00] wasn't for you.

For a lot of reasons, but we don't have to get into that. I have to put Kingdom Hearts on that list.

Oh.

Hearts like, really, and that's from my pss two days, obviously.

But like Kingdom Hearts really did a lot for me in terms of the stories that video games could play. And then Kingdom Hearts proceeded to make their story absolutely unintelligible for the rest of their games. But that first one was a magical moment. I gotta give N 64 Mario Kart a nod here. And actually, if I'm, if I'm really talking about N 64 games, I kind of have to put cart and smash on the same level. Just purely on like hours put into it. I have some friends down in LA who you have met that the only thing we do whenever I hang out with them is just break out the N 64 and play as much smash as possible. So I think the longevity of that really has to do something for us here. I wanna give a shout out to Starfield and I feel like that this is gonna be like a really Controversial opinion because it's probably one of the most polarizing Bethesda games that's ever come out. And I, I know we talked about this a little bit beforehand, and you're not as [00:06:00] familiar with Starfield again because it's a, an Xbox exclusive, but it's essentially it's, it was Bethesda game. It's the same company that came out with Fallout and Skyrim and Oblivion and all of those, like massive role playing.

Let's drop you into the world, and then you can kind of go do whatever the hell you want with yourself and you can customize your character however you want. And there's so many quests that you probably are never gonna scratch the surface of it. And Starfield just came out about a month and a half ago, and it's essentially a space version of Skyrim. And I know that a lot of people have a lot of complaints about how segmented it is, how the exploration isn't as quote unquote open as some of the other games that they've put in. Charlie, I have put 300 plus hours into this game over

the past month. Like my free time is being spent playing Starfield. So if I was, it would probably have been Skyrim coming in at this spot if I was a month ago, and now it might be Starfield. So I think Skyrim Starfield are, are really, really up there at the top. and I wanna give a shout out to Sonic the [00:07:00] Hedgehog because Sonic the Hedgehog, the original sonic on the se genesis is probably the first game that got me into video games.

I almost put that on my list, like the

why I love you.

Sonic is, so that's why I love you. It just, just like that

and just like the sound of the rinks when you collect them is just so satisfying.

Every single vibe about that game is correct.

Mm-hmm.

The, the stages, the music, even the like the bad guys that you're actually saving because they're just little bunnies that, that Dr. Robotnik turned into mechanical monsters. So everything about that game, the vibe's just totally right.

But that's enough video games.

Let's talk about Batman.

Let's

we should, let's talk about

Batman.

So we have two episodes to cover today. Last time we covered the first two episodes in Batman, the animated series. So today we're gonna talk about nothing to Fear in the last laugh. And let's start with nothing to fear Nothing to Fear, its release date [00:08:00] was on September 15th, 1992. It was directed by Boyd Kirkland and written by Henry Gilroy. And the plot of the episode is a criminal calling himself. The Scarecrow starts wrecking havoc against Gotham University, stealing funds while intoxicating people with a gas that causes nightmarish hallucinations. When Batman first tries to stop him, he gets intoxicated and begins to see his worst fear, his father, considering him a failure. I wanna start with the introduction to the episode and even before the introduction to Scarecrow himself, we have a little interaction of Bruce Wayne with someone who works at the University, Dr.

Long and. For lack of a better term, Dr. Long is an absolute fucking asshole to him.

He is such an asshole. I put , I put in my notes for this episode. That motherfucker is so lucky that Batman doesn't have to catch him from falling out of a building who goes out of [00:09:00] their way to say, oh, if your father were here, he would see what a disappointment you are. It's so heavy handed, it feels so rude.

What is Bruce's relationship with this person? Also, we never see him again. You know, it just, If I were to go in and rewrite that, I would have this be somebody that is a figure that comes back continuously in Bruce's life that he's trying to impress. But the fact that we have a one-off that is so callous and so cruel then walks away, it really, it really rubs me the wrong way.

And I feel protective of Bruce. I feel protective of my bat baby.

And some are kind of like. I guess tries to defend what he says because I guess he's stressed out about the university having hard times or whatever. But yeah, I don't see a universe in which you can kind of come off the top ropes on a stranger like that, even if it's like some rich playboy by your imagination and think that [00:10:00] that's like cool.

But I do, I guess they had to like make a point of what was coming and that like he struck a nerve there. I just don't, because he is, they were strangers. He's literally introducing himself to, to like, Bruce is literally introducing himself to Dr. Long in this scene and Dr. Long's like, yeah, I knew your dad.

He'd be fucking hate how you, what kind of person you were right now. So that's tough. That's a tough intro to the

episode for sure.

Also, it doesn't match Bruce's energy in this show. So far, Bruce doesn't give billionaire Playboy vibes. He seems like such a . Lovable dope. He seems awkward. You know, and Bruce could be way more of a stud or way

more suave in how he deals with people.

And I think, if I'm being honest, I would say that a lot of the portrayal of Bruce is influenced by Michael Keaton at this point. Because [00:11:00] Batman returns came out in the summer of 92, and that is probably, if I had to put my finger on it, a large part of the interpretation that they had for the Bruce persona.

So it's very, unassuming, seems to fly underneath the radar. Nice to everybody. Just why would you come? For Bruce, it doesn't make sense to call that type of person like just a philandering asshole.

Well, I think that there's potentially 'a cause I think that that's how they want to portray Bruce. I think that's how they want you to think. The public views him as this like This directionless. Egomaniac of a

billionaire. Yeah. But he obviously isn't acting that way. I agree with you that he's acting closer to Keaton than some Playboy dude.

'cause Keaton always came off as like a, I always found him as a very [00:12:00] socially awkward Bruce Wayne.

It was, It was,

clear that he was more comfortable as Batman than Bruce at all times, and that he actually disliked being Bruce. And I don't see that with the animated Bruce Wayne as much. I, and I do think that, 'cause I do think he is way more of a nice guy who caress and like the way that he talked to Summer and that he was trying to interact with Dr.

Long is like, yeah, this is, this guy's rich, but he's also like trying to make conversation with this dude

and this dude's just like, no, you're ignorant and you don't get it

and f you. So I, it was a strange start, but I, I, wanna get to a part that felt less strange to me. And I think you may have a differing opinion on this, but I actually really liked how they introduced Scarecrow into this episode. And maybe it's because we're only three in. I do think that this is the strongest introduction of a villain we've gotten so far. And

it could be that we're just setting a really low bar and that we've cleared the low bar so far. But I, I actually really liked how he dropped in. He's doing [00:13:00] the thing. He's like, no, it's not about money. He's obviously really annoyed that he has to hire these idiot henchmen to do like, 'cause he clearly feels like they're beneath him intellectually. And I I like the little speech that he gives. I like that he says he's the nightmare of Gotham. He is the scarecrow.

Like, that's the kind of ification I was looking for, which we haven't gotten yet. Obviously, like man, batt doesn't speak and Joker is joker. But I, I kind of liked that. This was a little bit more of a classic fill-in introduction. What did you think about how Scarecrow was shown to us?

I think maybe I'm being too hard on him. I think Scarecrow is so terrifying in other forms of media. Also, he gets much scarier when they give him a redesign and I believe it to be season of this show and season three, they give scare crew the gnarliest just terrifying bone chilling redesign he is.[00:14:00]

much more reserved with how much he speaks, and he doesn't talk as much. My problem with his introduction is that he just, he speechies so much and he's just, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm the master of fear. It's like if you're the master of fear, you should just be able to show up, say very little, do your thing, watch it happen.

Maybe have a little smirk on your face, then bounce. He just, he seemed like such a frustrated nerd

mm.

in this, even the way that they made his stupid human face look. He just looks like such an incel and so weird. I wish that he had a stronger why. For doing this.

When we get to Poison Ivy, she has a strong why when we get to two face, two face has a strong why with Scarecrow. I'm not exactly sure why he wants to scare people [00:15:00] other than him being like l o l. 'cause I feel like it, you know, it just feels, I don't care for his motivation, I wish that there could have been an added layer of him saying something akin to, I was afraid all the time when I was a little boy.

And I agreed that I would never be afraid anymore. So I'm gonna make everyone afraid before they make me afraid. And that would've made him a interesting inverse to Batman, who was afraid. But decided to own that fear and help other people. So it could have been an interesting foil for Batman, but instead Scarecrow, who also looks super fucking skinny by the way.

Like, you're really threatening me, dude. Watch me put on this gas mask and just throttle you. I just, yeah, I didn't care for him, but also I will grow to care for him.

No, it's a good point. It's a very good point. And I agree. 'cause his motivation is really just like I became obsessed with fear and the power that it could [00:16:00] harness. And then my colleagues at the university thought I was crazy, so they kicked me out. And now I'm gonna prove them wrong or right. I guess so. You're right. That's not as compelling as making it a direct inverse to what Batman is doing. I also agree with you that his look is not the best. It's the only time it lost me is when he took the mask off and the shape of his face didn't match the shape of the mask.

How did that football head foot, oh my god. Batman should have gone Helga on his ass and been like, watch where you're going. Football head. He just, he

I like that. I like that dark alternate universe where Arnold becomes scarecrow. That's

what he grows up to become.

Inhale ga

Oh my God, that'd be so good.

Helga would be Batman. I just wanna point that out. Helga would 1000% be Batman?

Yeah, she kind of, she is the asshole that that professor was talking about. Like in public, she's an asshole, but [00:17:00] inside she really cares.

Inside. She really caress.

Oh man. Put, Hey Arnold, on the short list of shows that we need to talk about on

this thing. Oh, my God. A classic. All right, we've covered the introduction of Scarecrow and he actually gets the best of Batman here. He does his whole speechifying thing. He tells us about who he is and why he is who he is, and then he manages to hit Batman with some of his toxin.

I mean, Batman's kind of prepared on the onset. He comes in with the gas mask, but in the pursuant fight, he does really get trapped in a burning room while he's hallucinating on the gas and. It's established earlier in the episode that this gas helps people see their greatest fear incarnated in front of them when they hit the security guard with the original gas.

He's covered in fake spiders, obviously that's his biggest fear. It was kind of funny when the goon didn't understand what Arachnophobia was, but regardless, Batman gets hit with the gas and the thing that he sees in his vision [00:18:00] is his late father Thomas Wayne, telling him that he's a failure and a disgrace to the family name. And yes, it was a heavy handed moment when Dr. Long kind of said all that to him, and unconsciously tapped into Bruce's deepest fears. But I'd love for you to get into the deeper meaning of all of this and how this really sticks with Batman and how we hear about it now, and how we're gonna continue to kind of like grapple with this fear of his throughout the series.

Yeah, I would say Bruce has a form of survivor's guilt because he is alive and his parents aren't. And dealing with that guilt and dealing with that anger and fear and frustration is pushed him toward becoming Batman. That's my interpretation of this moment. It's also very telling that Bruce doesn't have something physical.

he's afraid of because he's mastered so [00:19:00] much of the external and becoming a master detective and an escape artist and a martial artist, his biggest weakness is psychological. But that's also his biggest motivation. It really, it saves this episode for me, but not by that much. 'cause I still don't really care for it.

But I, I think that the Bruce part of it was really well done. And I think that scarecrow was really there for Bruce to learn that lesson and it sticks with him.

I wanna talk about the police because we, we disagree here. So we're gonna take a quick rewind and I want to tap back into that. But between the bank, he going down and that man getting out of there, he has a, a moment where he interacts with the police and they come in and he's like stumbling out. And I wasn't expecting them to be like, [00:20:00] Batman, what happened? Like, what are you okay? What happened here? And I'm like, hold on, timeout. Like, we were just pursuing this guy. Like we

were just like, fuck this guy. We need a task force. We need to bring him in. And all of a sudden the cops are like, no, hold on. Are you good? What? Like, this guy's stumbling out of a vault.

Like how do they, not immediately like, okay, we're cuffing you up real quick and just we're gonna talk to you about what happened here. And that moment of hesitation. And of course Harvey is like, hold on, let's, we should talk to this guy. And then we get a little like, visual look away and he's gone.

'cause that's what that man does. He just kind of like disappears into the night. I don't quite get the relationship yet because

I,

think it feels inconsistent. And, and I know you have thoughts about this, so go ahead.

yeah, it definitely feels inconsistent. I don't think that the writers know how to work that relationship either. We still haven't gotten a single scene of Batman and Commissioner Gordon meeting on the [00:21:00] rooftop with the bat signal.

Totally right.

I think that the gray space of Batman being on the rooftop and getting briefed by Commissioner Gordon is the sweet spot of that police relationship.

I don't think that having Batman show up in their bullpen or you know, being in the office really hits, right, because it just seems like Batman's trying to acquiesce to the police force, which absolutely fucking not. Also, to push back on what you said about the police treating Batman with more regard, the last episode in chronological order, Christmas with the Joker, Batman saved Commissioner Gordon that whole thing of being kidnapped

that's a really good point.

on tv.

So my head canon is that the police force saw that and they were like, oh,

He, he gets a little bit more of a leash now

because of that.

A little bit more. Not [00:22:00] that much, but they're like, okay. Batman did do that.

right? Because obviously Harvey is still like, this guy's up to something we can talk about this now because last episode I talked about how I read Harvey is dirty and I'd like to walk that back like com, like completely walk that back. He's just an idiot.

I don't think he's at 80.

he's he's kind of a dummy. He's a little bit of a dummy. And we're gonna talk about that the next episode. 'cause I think his,

his dummy flag really flies. And it's a little bit here too at the end. But yeah, I just wanna take that moment to kind of be like, I was wrong about Harvey Bullock, my bad.

He's not dirty. He's just a dummy let's get to the aftermath of the bank heist because this, in my opinion, is the best moment of the episode

and is like the strongest narrative moment of the episode. It's when Bruce is fucked up. He is experiencing the aftermath of the toxin. He's trying to figure out what's going on. He's got stubble all over his face. He's shaking. [00:23:00] You can tell that like a, he's shook by what he saw, and B, like it's physically still doing something to him and he can't a hundred percent trust what's real or what's not. our guy, Alfred, comes out, gives him a pep talk, tells him he is great, tells him he's proud of him.

Hmm.

and gets him his chicken soup and gets him into bed and helps him feel better. And I think there could have been this whole thing where Batman doesn't quite believe it and pushes back, but I think it was just really, really beautiful that Alfred was able to kind of just pull him out of where he was. And all Batman said was, thank you. And he made that acknowledgement that like, this is my family. This is the person who truly cares for me and sees who I am and that I'm not all of these things that I'm fearing. And while it doesn't seem like he's totally past it yet, I just feel like that was a really, really important moment and establishing that Bruce Alfred relationship beyond just like this is a butler [00:24:00] who helps him with his science and his crime fighting like this is his father, for lack of a better term. And I just thought that moment was really, really strong.

I agree with you. That moment was very strong, and like you said, Bruce, being able to receive it. So easily and naturally speaks to the strength of that connection. His relationship with Alfred is one of the most underrated but consistent parts of the show. Alfred is such a real one.

Alfred is such a real one. I would love to have an Alfred in my life.

Mm.

I mean, I guess that sounds a little, I don't need a butler. I just would like a I would like a, an Alfred, if that makes sense.

You know, a wise mentor,

I would like, to walk back what I said, not just about Harvey, but about Alfred, maybe Harvey needs in Alfred.

I don't need nobody cleaning up after me. That's fine. I can clean up after myself.

Let's move on to the, the next moment here where Batman has gotten a good night's [00:25:00] sleep and we're onto the next day. And this is a little museum benefit, a little university benefit, a little charity event being hosted by the university at a museum. And I just wanna point something out. maybe I'll get used to it at some point, but that box of just like muddy in checks and jewels that's just filled to the brimm by all of these rich people, coing into the benefit. I'm like, what are we doing here? People like just put a giant sign on it that screams steal me on it.

Like, what? You live in Gotham City.

Yeah, I blame not the writing, but the animation team. For that looking so janky.

Indeed, it definitely set the tone for this place is gonna get turned over very easily,

and lo and behold, it does. Scarecrow comes in with his cronies he immediately starts hitting people with the gas. The entire crowd is getting hit with this fear toxin and. they unsurprisingly see [00:26:00] Batman as a giant monster when he shows up to try and save the day. So the crowd of rich people actually start attacking Batman, and he has to figure out a way to kind of get through all of them without hurting everybody. And he manages to do that. And then he's off after the scarecrow. I wanna talk about something really quick.

Mm-hmm.

What's up with all the blimps, Charlie,

It's a style choice. Think they were going for like a 1950s. 19.

so that's my follow up question actually, is where do we think this is happening in time?

They, so here's the thing. In season three, when everything gets that revamp to match Superman, the animated series, it feels very modern to the point of just everybody's style, the slang, what people are doing in terms of, you know, activities and nightclubs. The point of this seeming very far removed from present day, that was a stylistic choice. That works for the most part. [00:27:00] It doesn't bump me, if anything, I think it makes Batman, the animated series have a very unique look and quality to it.

I don't mind it, but I can also, there's a lot of blimps. There's a lot of

It's a lot of blimps, that said, we've always known that a blimp is nothing but unreliable. If we can look back in famous blimps in history, the only blimp that has a good track record is the good year, and we barely see that shit anymore.

Yeah,

So Scarecrow sends one of his goons to go take care of Batman Lagoon immediately is like, what are you talking about?

What am I gonna do? and

Valid.

Valid.

Like, what the fuck am I, like, I know I got a Tommy gun, but like, what? What am I gonna do against Batman?

Well, my guy would've been correct in that analysis. 'cause he starts, he, well, Batman hits him in the hand with a battering, which that shit looked painful.

Getting a battering inserted into the top of your hand. and then just starts shooting through the blimp into the control system and everything's exploding and [00:28:00] blowing up.

And the blimp is going down and Batman gets hit with a fear toxin dart through all of this. So he's starting to get the hallucinations again. And this giant, now this was really scary, although it didn't make a total amount of sense, is why Thomas turned into a giant like zombie skeleton to tell Bruce that he was a failure.

One more time. And Charlie, I wanna give this one to you because I feel like you wanna read this line more than anybody else in the world.

Okay.

What does Batman say to the hallucination of his father that brings him out of his fear? Toxin haze and back into the present moment

He says, oh, man. All right. Let me, let me channel Kevin Conroy.

you have to.

I am vengeance. I am the night. I am Batman.

Bars.

Bars

Bars. That's my new daily affirmation. I need to wake up every morning saying that to myself

every morning saying that you are the night

every morning.

Doesn't matter. Listen, if I [00:29:00] can't be nocturnal, I get to pretend that I'm nocturnal.

Okay?

yeah,

it's more about the affirmation of it all than how much it physically

makes

and you know what? If we're taking that affirmation to the real world, it's very validating to say that you are bigger than your fear. Like you are thing that your greatest nightmare should be afraid of. Because your greatest nightmare is all a matter of you being afraid of the unknown. And Batman saying, oh no, I'm greater than that is a powerful affirmation.

All right, so moving on from, honestly, would you say that that was probably the biggest characterization moment we've had for Batman so far in our three episodes that Yeah, kind of without

a doubt, this is kind of the biggest like almost mission statement of Batman there.

Like we kind of get who he is in all of that, despite, it's like, yes, he's a human who has fears and feelings and other things, but in spite of all that, [00:30:00] he stands up to it and he faces his fears and he pursues what he thinks is right. And I think that that's a very great statement of purpose there. But moving on, actually, and this was kind of surprising to me, is Scarecrow gets away, he escapes the the get captured, but Scarecrows gone. And so I actually thought we were gonna end this episode on Batman. Just kind of be like, I'm gonna get him. Scarecrow going away, being like, I'm gonna get him. Cool.

We're gonna see them later. But no, detective Batman's on the case.

He gets back in his Batmobile, the analysis comes back from the little Scarecrow mask that he ripped off of him during the last fight. And he essentially figures out who Scarecrow is. Dr. Jonathan Crane.

So Batman goes and gets our guy and he exposes scarecrow to the fear toxin. And it turns out in an ironic twist that Scarecrows biggest fear happens to be bats. He sees a giant bat flying out from the shadows. That was the [00:31:00] hallucination. And then Batman appears. And I actually, I, I love that I keep caching things in this series that I've seen in more modern Batman media. And I knew that this series was influential. I didn't realize how many direct lifts that future media would take out of this series that

we've seen already.

it is the like golden standard for Batman that everything

Oh, yeah,

up to

I agree with that. And actually, and we'll get to this in our next episode when we cover pretty Poison, there's actually stuff in that that I've, I mean, we're gonna have multiple moments that I meant, oh, I recognize this from the game

Yeah.

where they show moments in the show. So this one it's actually a connection to Batman Begins. And if you remember, at the end of Batman Begins, spoilers for Batman begins, I guess. At the end when Batman hits Sian Killian

Killian Murphy. Oppenheimer when he hits

Oppenheimer with the gas

Yeah.

that's, that's great that, I dunno how to pronounce his name. I'm keeping that part.

So [00:32:00] Killian Murphy, as Scarecrow gets hit with his own fear toxin, you find out again that his greatest fear is bats and Batman turns into this like crazy demonic monster. and when Scarecrow in the animated series sees that crazy dog monster, I'm like, this is a direct lift.

Like the, the team at Batman begins basically was like, let's bring that animated monster Batman into life. In my opinion, it looked like if I held this, I didn't hold screenshots up to each other, but they looked so similar, especially in

the facial structure of it all. So I just, I just think it's so cool that I continue to see these moments that directly influenced modern Batman media that we are maybe either less or more familiar with.

And I'm sure there's some people sitting here listening to this being like, yeah, duh, you fucking idiot. But whatever. I'm, I'm experiencing this for the first time, so I think it's really, really cool.

Yeah, it, it definitely, Echoes throughout like a couple of movies and other shows and I would say even comic books that we see with these [00:33:00] characters reappearing.

Well, that's that folks. The, the Scarecrow is caught. He gets tossed in jail. He vows revenge. We're gonna see him again.

surprise. surprise. We will

see the Scarecrow once more and Gotham is safe once more for now. Now, is there anything about any of the characters that we didn't touch on that you wanna cover?

The biggest thing that I have to say for this episode when it comes to Alfred is that he is the. Once again, the tie to Bruce's humanity. We're gonna get Bruce with more people in his life who anchor him to his selfhood.

I would say that Alfred does that beautifully now.

I think that'll take us into our Riddler trophies for this episode. Our little fun facts. And guess what? I found more Riddler trophies this time. I got, I got, got got in my research back. So the first thing I actually wanna talk about is about Alfred. This episode actually marks the final one, featuring Clive Revel as the voice of Alfred who left due to a prior commitment to a different show. Looking back, [00:34:00] tough looks for our guy Clive. He could have He could have been Alfred, he could have been iconic man. But moving forward from this episode on, we're gonna be hearing the vocal stylings of Ephraim Zambales Jr. And he would carry the role of Alfred through the rest of the extended animated DC universe. So I think that's kind of interesting and I, I do have thoughts about this different voice versus the old one. And we can save that for the next episode. Do you have any final thoughts on Clive as Alfred before we move on to Ephraim for the rest of our time on the series,

I think he set the character up beautifully, but I am very excited for what the future voice of Alfred Holtz.

Salute to you, Clive. All right. Well, more Riddler trophies. Up until this point, only Batman, 1989 in an episode of Super Friends had gone into Batman's past outside of the comics. So actually diving into the past of Batman and what happened to his parents was actually really, really rare for television media at this point.

I think it was too dark [00:35:00] for them to really handle properly, particularly in Batman 1966, like where they were just pow Bain all over the place. So it took a while for us to get this as the . baseline for how Bruce's origin should be handled.

This is a smaller Easter egg, but an Easter egg. Regardless, I think this is more of like the WB extended universe the security guard at the bank during the original heist where Scarecrow comes in and does his thing with his goons. He's actually reading a Tiny Tunes adventure comic book.

I caught that. That's so cute.

So it, I, it, when I read that, I went back and I watched it again. I was like, oh shit. Yeah. That's Tiny Tunes. That's so funny. I was also a big tiny Tunes adventure fan when I was of the age of watching Batman, the Animated series. So moving on, if you're a fan of The Flash, you'll recognize one of the names of the laboratories that was used to create scarecrows stuff, and that was Star Laboratories.

Star Labs is [00:36:00] very, very prevalent in the Flashes story, especially if you watched the CW Flash. Pretty much everything in that show happens inside of Star Labs. So that's a, a fun little DC nod there. And then my final Riddler Trophy is that this episode was actually adapted. Into the sixth level of the Super Nintendo video game, the Adventures of Batman and Robin. So again, I think it's really amazing that this series was so influential in future media that like literal, multiple episodes were used to adapt into a video game that I'm a million percent gonna need to go find or Nintendo release it for, switch online, do it, do it now.

So that takes us without further ado into our battering rating for this episode. Charlie, I'd love for you to go first. What, how many batter rings are you giving? Nothing to fear.

I really care for this one. The only reason I'm giving it two stars is Batman's Aha.

Moment on the blimp of I Am Vengeance. I'm the night I am tonight. [00:37:00] I am Batman. That's such an iconic moment that I forget is in this episode. God, I just hate the Scare Crew dialogue so much. I don't get a sense of his personality or his motivation. I, I don't think that Scarecrow is on the caliber that this show will eventually become

so I have grace, but I don't have that much grace. So for me, it's two stars.

It is fair. I actually, and this is why I love talking to you about this stuff, because I originally had this at three and a half batter rings, and after chatting with you, I'm bringing it down to three

Hmm.

I liked our last two episodes less than this one.

I just, it's as simple as that. I liked this episode more than either of the first two that we watched, so if we're, if I'm kind of balancing on my scale, if I liked it better than the first two, I'm gonna read it a little bit better than the first two. So yeah, I'm, I'm gonna give it a three and that my friends is nothing to fear.

All right, well, let's move on the next episode is titled The Last Laugh. It was released on [00:38:00] September 22nd, 1992, directed by Kevin Terri and written by Carl Swenson. And the plot of this episode is it's April Fool's Day and Joker unleashes a supply of laughing gas on Gotham City, incapacitating its populace and allowing him to steal things at his leisure. Only Batman equipped with a gas mask manages to escape its effects. How did Joker get outta jail?

He got out on a Christmas tree again. I don't know, it's the Joker.

Yeah, I.

I love how it hasn't even been four episodes and the joker's already back goons with kind of a submarine esque like vehicle. It just,

He is

teched up.

any sense. But also the Joker, I give the Joker a lot of credit because one of the things that he's known for is being an extremely talented strategist and somebody who always has [00:39:00] a backup plan up his sleeve, which makes him such a match for Batman.

'cause Joker is chaotic. But at the same time, if Joker were anything, I would call him. Weirdly lawful, chaotic, he's messy, but there is a sense of structure. There's like a method to his messiness, if that makes

definitely a plan.

There's always

definitely a plan

joker, but you underestimate him 'cause he

isn't clown makeup.

So anytime the Joker escapes and he has this elaborate plan, I buy it because Joker is that bitch.

So this time we see a garbage barge floating into town. Steaming up green stanks, but the fumes are causing everyone to start laughing uncontrollably. It's like the super heavy laughing gas. And like a bank truck drives off of a bridge and luckily the guy jumps out. 'cause somehow when [00:40:00] you're laughing hysterically, you can still think about jumping out of a moving vehicle and the, the city is being taken over by this green gas. Everyone's cracking up. And then you see the barge open up beneath it, and you have Joker and his goons coming out to essentially like go on a shopping spree throughout the city. And then we take it back into Bruce's manner. And I, I would actually, let's pause before we go over to Bruce. 'cause I, you had a really big problem with the opening of this

Oh my God. I have a problem with the op opening of the episode. It was did, it did. It did. It did. It did it did it.

found.

It, it was so cringey. The music that they had in the opening of the show. It dates the episode tremendously. It's corny. I feel like somebody I. , like AI did something on GarageBand, but not in a good way.

It just, it took me out of the episode and they kept playing it. [00:41:00] Steve, they kept playing it. It wasn't just the opening, like whoever composed this episode thought they were eating. They were like, look at this mix that I made. It's gonna play while joker's spreading his toxin. It made me wanna claw my face off.

It was so bad.

It felt like the composer heard run D M C for the first time, like seven

hours before they were supposed to start composing and

was like, oh, I got this.

it sounds like hip hop, like a bad interpretation of hip hop.

Have your kids heard of this hip hop

have you heard of this hip hop?

So shitty music aside, that takes us outta the episode. We then go into Bruce's manner and Alfred's got jokes, man. Bruce is stressed about some shit. He's like not ready to be goofing around and Alfred's like, I can tell you're stressed. I drew you a bath. go take a load off. And Bruce walks into the bathroom and the thing's empty and Alfred's like, look, I [00:42:00] drew you a bath and holds up a picture. And Bruce is like, The fuck is wrong with you man. And just goes in the shower and Alfred's like, this guy doesn't have a funny bone in his body. I thought that shit was hilarious.

I was like, okay, Alfred being funny, having a personality and stuff like that.

That was definitely, it was a cute moment for Alfred, just him having a sense of humor with Bruce. It seems to be, not Alfred's usual sense of humor. 'cause Alfred is usually a bit sassier

Mm-hmm.

than that. Like, like I said before, he's a bit more Jeffrey from Fresh Prince of Bel Air and he just very dry in his delivery.

But it is April Fool's Fool's Day and it's sets up what happens when Alfred gets hit with the laughing gas later. So if anything, I think it's more set up than. what would naturally be something from his character. Also, Bruce, you are a grown ass man. Draw your own bath. Like, we're really doing this . That kind of [00:43:00] made me eye roll.

we're doing it.

Bruce is an annoying, rich person in this episode on a level that he usually isn't, so

I agree with that. Well, we can move right into that moment too, 'cause that it pretty much happens right off the tail end. Batman hears the, or Bruce hears the radio report that something's happening downtown. People are going crazy. Summer Gleason's on the screen and is downtown with a gas mask basically being like, stuff's going wilds.

The stock market is upending. Everyone is laughing hysterically while they're doing their thing. Joker comes on and I, I loved this moment. He makes like like the only thing going up are the laughing stocks. And you can s this is a clear animation choice. One of his henchman just rolls his eyes in the background when he says that.

I thought that shit was so funny. I just like those little subtle moments where he is like, oh God, this fucking guy making these jokes, but we gotta work for him 'cause he is a super villain, I guess. I thought. Absolutely. Sent me,

Oh my God. That [00:44:00] guy definitely gave a call to his agent who books him through like the super villain agency as a henchman. He's like, look, all these goon gigs you throw in me, they're not working like you got me with the Joker again. What's going on with poison ivy? What's

exactly. Can you, can you hook me up with like Catwoman or something? Geez. Oh my goodness. Well, shortly after that moment of Joker kind of giving his public statement of intent, Batman's on it, he's, he's in his bat ma boat.

He's speeding off to grab the barge. I don't think bat Mabo is the correct term for that, but I'm gonna go with it. His initial move is to get the boat out of the city, get the garbage barge out of the city, let me tether up to it and let me get this thing the fuck outta here. And eventually that gets foiled. He gets his boat cut off from it. He has to get out and start fighting the goons and runs into Captain Clown. [00:45:00] Captain Clown we find out later, is a giant robot, which I, I think kind of at the beginning it's pretty obvious that he's a giant robot. He's worrying around mechanically. He doesn't say any words or anything like that, but Captain Clown gets the best of Batman here. He spins him around like crazy.

He's too strong for Batman to figure out. He tosses him in like this industrial sealed barrel and joker stabs a bunch of holes in it and tosses him into the river and goes, okay, that's that for Batman. Let's go do the rest of our plan. I wanna give a shout out to Batman's gadgets here. He has that little moment where he hits that little button on his belt and the bat Mobo becomes a bat mo submarine,

and it dives under the water and he like gets that little laser moment where it hits him out and he escapes through the barrel that way.

Like that was a, in my opinion, an iconic Batman moment. Like that's the kind of shit that we think about when we think of Batman. Him getting put into a dire situation and him staying calm using his witts, but more importantly, using the technology that he has

to get [00:46:00] himself out of tight spots. So I think that was like a really great first use case of like, here is how he's never down and out. And probably one of the many times where the villains need to learn that you just take the dude out and you leave it there, you don't leave anything to chance. so

100%. 100%.

in, in Batman, getting out of a hairy situation.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is the element of, comparing him to Colombo in that way would be a stretch, because Colombo leans so heavily on just intuition and detective work and figuring out how the villains did what they did, and Batman has his gadgets, but that is his form of Colombo and his way out of certain situations that makes these 22 to 24 minutes of television really sweet.

Totally. Well, when Batman finds Joker and his goons, again, they're in their final phase of getting the [00:47:00] laughing gas distributed to all of Gotham and Batman shows up and he does his thing, and he unmasked the two goons one by one to totally take them out of the picture. But Captain Clown is still there. and Captain Clown continues to give Batman trouble, and this is the first fight that we really see Batman struggle. Obviously he got beat by him the first time and he's still struggling to take him out. I mean, you're talking about a giant robot with infinite strength pretty much. But eventually he does really kind of, there's a little ninja Batman in there.

He uses a bow staff to trip the robot up after he smashes his face open and you think he's down. But then he jumps out of the trash compactor and Batman eventually smashes him with the trash compactor. I think this hearkens back on what we were talking about before, there's like a resourcefulness in a network to Joker that we don't totally have total vision into. 'cause he went from being in ar asylum to having like one of the most technologically advanced [00:48:00] bad guys that Batman's fought so far.

Yeah, there's resources and I think that we're just like with the Scarecrow, we're not necessarily that connected to the why of Joker yet. I think with Joker, the biggest thing that makes his character work is the fact that he is deeply narcissistic and he needs Batman's attention and validation. He puts together these plans because in joker's mind, like Mark Hamill said, he is the greatest comedian who ever lived.

He's doing this because he finds it funny. The sole purpose isn't to take over the world or be evil. It's like, oh no, I'm a genius. Look at how funny this is. But he's a psychopath and his sense of humor just so happens to include violence. and that's really what makes the Joker tick.

And my problem with not only Christmas with the Joker, but [00:49:00] this episode is that joker's plans aren't really that violent. You know, I, I really like a joker who is gonna laugh and smile, then stab you in the eye with a pencil , that's the spirit of the Joker, just the unpredictability and also not taking him seriously.

That hasn't quite been captured yet.

Yeah, there is a distinct difference in, everyone's laughing so hard, let's go shopping, and I'm a blow up a hospital.

Right, right. There really is, you know, it feels like we're not getting. We're not there yet, but we'll get there with this version of the Joker.

Well, let's talk about his pursuit of the Joker through the final part of this episode, because I think that actually plays into some of the stuff that you were just talking about there. He's, first of all, the shot of him just sitting on the cubed Captain clown with like the shadow over his face [00:50:00] and his crazy smile with his eyes like that. right there is the Joker. Like that was my first like, oh yeah, like this is, this is the guy that we've been waiting for. Just him just calmly waiting, smiling like a crazy person. And it just, it felt very iconic. It felt very like, this is what I think of when I think of the Joker and this pursuit is really cool. I think the shot of Batman swinging through the flames again is like one of my favorite moments of the show so far. I think anytime you can just like show Batman doing crazy feats of strength and acrobatics, I think is always just a good indication of just like how special this guy is, even though he is this billionaire playboy philanthropist on the surface.

And then at the end when he catches them, I th I think this is a clear case of what you just laid out is jokers basically like, you wouldn't let me burn, would you

like, after all of this, you still care about little old me. And I, and I do think that there is this like, but you're obsessed with [00:51:00] me too.

Like I'm obsessed with you, you're obsessed with me. We need each other. And that's something that Joker talks about a lot. Like there is no Joker without Batman. There's no Batman without Joker.

Yeah. It definitely plants those early, early seeds. Can we talk about that last look that the animators had Batman give Joker as he saved him from falling and getting burned to death. Why was Batman kind of looking at Joker? The way I read it is, is Batman kind of adoring the Joker right now? Was he kind of like a, ah, you know, you're my favorite, but I'm not gonna tell you that you're my favorite.

He kind of like leaned his chin into his palm and kind of like looked at him and was playing coy about, you wouldn't let little, little me burn, would you? It felt very, I don't know what the animators were going for with that. Like, what was that moment? It didn't feel as grim as I know Batman to be.

It also didn't feel [00:52:00] that stoic. It missed the mark for me. I'm not sure what . That last look was supposed to be

That's an interesting point. Let's keep talking about the Joker now that we've had a little bit more time with him we've gotten our second episode with the Joker. I do agree with you that A lot of it was rooted in him thinking that it was all funny, rather than him being like, I'm gonna watch the world burn. And he really had Batman at the top, not gonna lie, had him in the first half. Man.

really

I thi I think you have to give credence to a plan when the hero kind of gets his ass kicked right at the beginning.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I, I look forward to them building off of him here and making him more menacing and unpredictable in a way that you really see that he desperately needs Batman to give him some props for all the work he's putting into these masterful schemes. [00:53:00] Also, I can't wait till we get to Harley Quinn because she brings out so much more color and depth in the Joker, and I think Harley Quinn being so light and on some level, harmless gives Joker space to be even more dark.

So I think without Harley Quinn, joker feels not as threatening. , like without that counterbalance. I think Joker feels a little off in these early episodes when she's not there.

We can't wait for Harley Quinn to show up for many reasons, but that we can add to the list of many reasons why we can't wait for Harley Quinn to show up.

Let's talk about Alfred really quick before we move on to our rid trophies. This is the first episode featuring Fremm and Ballast Jr. As Alfred. You can, I mean, I can tell that the voice is different. I don't know if you can tell as much as I could. I was immediately like, oh yeah, this is a different guy for sure. Here's my hot take. Didn't like it as much. I really

miss Clive. That was

my, because he had so [00:54:00] much more to do in this episode, I thought it was very, very interesting that Clive was gone and immediately, like Alfred had five times the lines.

Mm-hmm.

He had a lot more to say in this episode.

And

of shit to say in this episode.

he did have a lot of shit to say in this episode, it was just interesting to me that they changed the voice actor and the character immediately had way more to do in this one. And I found myself wishing that it was Clive's voice with more to do.

Oh man. This is one of those cases where I don't know if I noticed as much.

I think that I didn't notice as much because Alfred was acting so out of character.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really, it didn't bump me, but if I were to go back and re-listen to it, I'm sure I would catch it. For me, it worked.

I would say really to say about Alfred, but also Bruce's joke to Alfred, a bit of me was a little like Bruce just go away when he said, [00:55:00] oh, all this stuff is broken. I'll just take it out of your salary for the next three years. I kind of gasp a little bit, like, how dare you don't talk

the fact that Alfred was like okay. Like he agreed to it.

I'm like, absolutely not Bruce. This is so disgusting. . And then Bruce turning around and saying, oh, April Fools. Just him not knowing how to joke other than threatening to. Cut somebody off from resources makes me remember that this is a rich, white person that we're dealing with. But at the same time, I'm gonna pin it not on Bruce, 'cause that rarely happens with him and pin it more on the writers, just not knowing how to give him better joke or a better moment.

Because I think Bruce is capable of being funnier than that. I also think that the way that Bruce and Alfred verbally spar with each other is very [00:56:00] intellectual. They sass each other and it's a very dry, so it doesn't feel true to the characters to have them do lowbrow humor with each other, if that makes sense.

It's always very quippy.

It does make sense. I felt that last scene was very awkward in general.

honestly like probably could've done without it and I don't think the episode would've been much different.

Oh yeah. I, when I re-watch this episode, I just, I choose to ignore it.

That's fair enough. Well on, on that note, let's get to our batang rating. Charlie, you went first on the last one, so I'm gonna go first on this one. I'm giving this one, two and a half stars. I think I'm again operating on the scale of, if I gave my last episode featuring the Joker A two, and I liked this one slightly more than Christmas with the Joker than for me.

It lands on a two and a half. I already know what you're gonna give it, but please tell us what you thought about this

You already know. You already know. [00:57:00] I'm giving it one and a half stars of de

Ooh.

hip hop. Oh my God. I just, I can't, with that opening, this has probably been my least favorite episode of all the ones we've watched so far, it, it just didn't, it didn't do it for me.

And that's fair. That's the beautiful thing about opinions folks. They're like assholes. We all have them,

you know well on that note, We're gonna go ahead and get outta here for this episode of Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. We covered nothing to fear. We covered the last laugh. We gave our battering ratings.

We talked about what we loved, what we didn't love, and how we related to it. And we're gonna go ahead and make like a bat and fly the hell outta here. So we're gonna be back in the next episode with two more episodes of Batman the Animated series. The next time we come back, we'll be talking about Pretty Poison [00:58:00] and the under dwellers, which we're both very excited about, specifically getting to talk about our girl Poison Ivy for a little bit. So for myself, Steve Snick and my good friend Charlie Peppers, this was Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. Don't forget to give us a rating. Review us on where you get your favorite podcasts, and be sure to come visit us next time when we talk about Pretty poison and the under dwellers. See you later, friends.

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