Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi friends. Welcome to Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff and Merry Christmas to you all and happy Festivus to the rest of us. This is a special Christmas episode that Charlie and I are really excited to be putting together for all of you where we decided to get together and watch just a variable classic of a Christmas film and hop on the airwaves and talk about it.

So without further ado, we're going to be giving you our first, should we just say annual right now? Christmas episode of our very special. Charlie and Steve watch a Christmas movie, Batman Returns.

We can say annual. I'm confident to say annual.

Oh, I love that. Good. Well, before we go any further, we have to introduce the man, the myth, the legend. He's ascending in his ducky boat to the surface of the Gotham Streets, to just find out why his parents would do such a thing. It's [00:01:00] Charlie Peppers.

Hello everybody. I'm doing well. So excited to be on this journey with all of you. I've re-watched Batman Returns so many times that this just feels, this just feels like another day, to be honest. I.

just another day watching Batman returns. Well, let's just get right into it. Charlie Batman returns the sequel. We can call that a sequel to Batman, 1989. It's definitely the sequel to Batman 1989. It was released on June 19th, 1992, so we're staying right in those early nineties with our Batman theme directed by Tim Burton. Now this was written by Daniel Waters, but there are some uncredited writers on this movie. So I wanna have Charlie come right in, right away. And as a writer yourself, I would love for you to just explain to the Charlie and Steve Tuff audience exactly how this writer credit thing is working in this situation and how you see it in Hollywood, kind of often if it's needed.[00:02:00]

Batman Returns has an interesting history as far as the screenplay. That's where I'll start before I backtrack to what goes on with credits. So Sam Hamm, the writer of Batman 89, he produced a draft of the script that was just titled Batman two. And Tim Burton pretty much just threw out his story, decided I don't want to do that.

But he kept elements of Sam Ham's script, which are Penguin Catwoman in Christmas time. Those were the three things that Burton really wanted to cover. He brought Daniel Waters on board. Daniel Waters did a draft of the script, which is what got greenlit and that greenlit version of the script once they were on set.

It's really important for you to have a producing writer, and we call a producing writer. A producing writer, because they have the director's ear, and as things come up in production or if things need [00:03:00] to be cut, or things need to be changed, or if an actor feels that a line isn't true to their character, the producing writer, the onset writer will go to their typewriter, change a scene so that it fits the director's notes and the actor's notes sometimes of what the scene should be.

And for whatever reason, that couldn't be Daniel Waters. So it was Wesley Strick who is the uncredited writer for this movie.

All right, well, now that we've established the key players and a little bit of like Hollywood Insider knowledge from our Hollywood writer, Charlie, let's get to the plot of the movie. In the film, a new criminal mastermind called The Penguin Rises from the sewers of Gotham to reclaim the birthright that his wealthy parents denied him. With the help of a corrupt businessman, they impeach the current mayor and set up their own campaign. Meanwhile, Batman comes face-to-face with Catwoman.

Reflecting upon his own obsessions and murderous vendettas, [00:04:00] he has left forever changed.

So Steve, I'm curious, what's your earliest memory of watching this film

I was so excited to get to this part,

Okay.

I'm really, really stoked. I've kept this a secret from you this entire

Oh my God. I can't wait to hear what you're about to say. Go. Go.

I've never seen a second of this movie before.

What?

days ago, I've, I mean, maybe I've never seen a second is dramatic, but I have never watched this movie before Saturday, and it was a fun fucking ride my friend.

Who

The hell are you? I don't know you anymore.

this is like, this is super funny. I could do this for like a lot of movies and I'm really, really glad that this came up in our life so quickly on something that's like so important to you because A, I didn't even hesitate to go and watch it, especially for something like this and knowing that it's like literally the movie that you've watched more than any other movie on this planet. I think for some reason if something passed me by by a certain age, it became harder [00:05:00] and harder as I got older to go back and like grab that stuff. Especially as there's just like so much to consume in front of us all the time. But no, this was definitely a worthy, let's go back into the vault and watch this classic and let's do it for my, my friend Charlie.

But yeah, never seen it before this weekend.

That's awesome. I'm so excited to dig into what your thoughts are. I was excited, but now time's that by three, and that's my level

of just wanting to get into this. I, I mentioned it earlier, but my first memory of Batman Returns was in 1992 when it came to VHS, and I saw the VHS tape, the famous image of Batman's head and cat woman's head and penguin's head.

And I thought, oh, who's that lady on the cover of the Batman movie? Because I was so drawn to this figure that looked like Batman, [00:06:00] but was doing her own thing. And seeing Michelle Pfeiffer's performance in Catwoman was such a formative thing for me as a gay black boy to just see this woman . Eat, like, eat every scene and leave no crumbs.

I, oh my God, ask any gay man about Michelle Pfeiffer's performance as Catwoman, and you will get a bevy of responses about how transformative it was in their life. I'm going to dig more into that as we keep going, but for me, her performance in this movie, it's just giving mother, it is giving mother, it is serving.

I, I love other things in the movie, aside from her , but yes, I just, one of my favorite performances in anything I've ever seen in my 34 years.

I'll tell you what I mean. She was a little transformative for a [00:07:00] 33-year-old straight man too. If we're being totally, if we're being totally honest about it, Michelle can, I mean, Michelle could still get it in 2023, so like

that's That's fair. That's fair. But yeah, no, a hundred percent agree that she was at one of the many highlights that I experienced in this movie. So yeah. Take, take us along my friend.

All right, so the WB logo appears on screen and you just hear that sweet, sweet score from Danny Elman. And the first scene that we see is of Oswald Copo, who will later be known as the Penguin being born. And it's so, I love that this entire sequence has no dialogue. It plays out in three very quick scenes.

We see Paul Rubins, may he rest in peace, reacting to his son's violent birth, then reacting to how violent his son is. They [00:08:00] actually have him in a cage, not a crib, and he eats the cat. Foreshadowing. We'll get to that later

that was cool.

and then they dump Oswald into Gotham River. So Steve, I have a question for you.

Yeah,

Did this opening suck you in

it did. You know what? This opening reminded me that this movie was directed by Tim in. I was like, oh, yeah. This movie was directed by Tim and, and babies are eating cats. And it, this was rated PG 13, right?

It was, it was, I

have I have stuff to say about that when the time

So many nineties movies should not have been rated PG 13.

Yeah.

The, this movie had no business being rated PG 13. This is the Horniest Batman film, the

woo.

Batman film

telling me.

But yeah, I'm in. I'm in for sure. And knowing that, I mean, I obviously knew that like Dandy DeVito was about to also like come in and cook as the penguin. So I'm like, okay, yeah, [00:09:00] they're setting this up. Let's see what kind of absolute goony Goon is gonna come outta this.

Yeah. Yeah. And this, I would argue that starting the film with Oswald being thrown into Gotham River, I'm gonna take a wild swing right now and say that the Penguin is the hero of this movie. He is an anti-hero for sure. But if we're looking at Tim Burton's sensibilities and who are typically the heroes of his stories, Beetlejuice A Nightmare before Christmas.

Look, Edward Scissor Hands Penguin was Burton's emotional access point. For this movie, I think Penguin is the reason he wanted to do this movie, and the fact that the movie is Book-ended with Penguin being dumped into Gotham River, then dying in Gotham River, really speaks to what the film has to say about being [00:10:00] an outsider.

Because if we're really looking at the themes of this movie, it's about class, it's about, duality. And it's also about not fitting into societal norms, which is in its own definition, that's the definition of being queer. What do you think?

I totally agree with that. And, and it's funny. Yeah, Batman does feel like, I, I think the only other argument you could make is that maybe Catwoman was also one of the quote unquote like heroes of the movie, if we're

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We'll, definitely. I have a lot to say about that. Yeah, she's definitely one of the heroes and rewatching it this time, and I wanna jump back into the plot after I say this. I was so surprised at how much my heart went out to the penguin.

Mm.

Numerous

do feel bad for him.

you do feel bad for him. I think that I'm so used to laughing at him and finding him disgusting that having to sit down and take notes.

I was [00:11:00] really struck by the humanity and DeVito's performance this time around. speaking of which, I want to go to the next part, which is we jumped forward 30 plus years. Penguin is still in the sewers and it's Christmas time and Gotham, we see a bunch of things happening in the town square. And production design definitely did the damn thing because this is a fully realized city that was all on a back lot.

I don't believe that they shot on location for anything in this movie. Everything was filmed on the Warner Brothers back lot. And if you do a Warner Brothers tour, you'll see, you know, on a plaque where Batman 89 and Batman returns were filmed. We gotta do that next time you're in la.

We have to.

absolutely. But what I really like about this opening sequence where the Red Triangle gang attacks the Christmas festivities happening is how over the top it is.

It is so [00:12:00] cartoonish. It is so extra. It doesn't look scary. I mean, it definitely looks cinematic and there's a foreboding sense to what's about to happen once the big Christmas present with a bow comes in. But yeah. Steve, what did you make of this opening action sequence? I'm curious.

I like that there was a bat signal right away. There was that progression as well. It's like, okay, get, get the signal on. We gotta get Batman in here. And Bruce Wayne's just hanging out at home waiting for his time to come in from the top ropes and do his thing. I think at that point you can't go too long without Batman as well, so they like kind of needed to be able to put Batman into the action and show that it's a Batman who can like handle his shit.

He's like, oh yeah, this is like another Wednesday for me. I was hanging out in my slippers and now I'm in my get up kicking ass and taking names.

Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

fun. But definitely, definitely a little hokey.

Definitely a little hokey for 92. [00:13:00] I'll let them have it. So the next sequence we go into is Mac Shrek played by Christopher Walken, who also slays in this movie. He is this tycoon who is on the precipice of doing something to, and his words change the game and secure family wealth for generations and generations to come. So pretty much Max Shrek is white manning hard, definitely doing the thing.

Definitely trying to get ahead. And in this movie symbolizes the person who oppresses people like Catwoman and Penguin. He gets abducted by Penguin and we get this amazing sequence of Max meeting all of the Circus fam, all of the queer people, and Penguin saying, Hey, I want to go back to the surface and you're the person to help me do it.

This scene was just so brilliant, and I don't even know if I have the words to describe [00:14:00] all the places that DeVito goes with his performance. He is over the top, but then he brings it down to be small and to say something like, I just wanna know who my parents are. Why did they abandon me? But also fuck Gotham, and I'm gonna blackmail you and I know where all the bodies are hidden.

So this is somebody who's been so hardened by his trauma, but also is a criminal mastermind and wants to mastermind his way to . Figuring out why his parents did what they did. What do you think?

I love the way that the scene was blocked out and staged because it felt like Dandy DeVito was on a stage giving a monologue.

Like that's Yeah,

it felt like a Thea Yeah.

it felt like a theatrical read and like, almost like Christopher Walkin was, I'm gonna call, honestly, I'm gonna call him Christopher Walkin the whole time.

I could not see Christopher Walk-in, and honestly, I just pretended like it was Christopher Walkin and not whoever [00:15:00] the character was the entire time,

Fair. Fair.

funnier for me to watch him being like an industrialist prick. But yeah, so I, I, I just felt like he was I don't know if this is a hot take, but I, I actually feel like Danny DeVito put in the kind of performance that in like if it was 2015 and he did a performance like that, we'd be talking about him being in like best supporting actor consideration.

Oh my God.

Entirely, entirely.

I completely agree. Every time I watch this movie, I am so surprised by how good he is. The performance gets better and better the more I watch it. So good. He was literally in sync with the penguin on a molecular level.

Yeah, I just, the way that he moved and the way that he sounded when he moved, like his little grunts as he waddled around was the most brilliant touch of making him like, yeah, he's like adjacent to a human. Like there's something just on the side of it, but he is also [00:16:00] at the same time, has these human feelings and emotions.

So yeah, that scene really set us up super well, and it felt so, I mean, talk about things that, again, just like scream Tim Burton, it just felt like we were watching a Tim Burton play inside of a Tim Burton movie. It was really great.

Oh, it was great. It was great. You could feel the director having fun. I could also feel him having fun. Speaking of an actor completely using the space in a stage Selena's apartment before I talk about her performance. That set has so much character in it. It's painted pink. There are all these stuffed animals,

She has her little routine where she turns on the lamp and says, honey, I'm home. Oh wait, I forgot I'm not married. It just, you know, immediately the moment this woman shows up on screen who she is, and it's really cool because you get to see her enter the apartment [00:17:00] as this meek version of Selena. Then in a couple of scenes, she reenters as a completely transformed person.

What'd you think of this early version of Catwoman before she becomes the Catwoman?

It is so funny. I, I cringe at pre Catwoman, Selena mostly just because so much of her sentiment just like, doesn't fly in today's society.

Mm

every, every, I could just hear Erin like, kind of being like, okay, like when was this movie made? Like listening to Selena, walk into her apartment, complain about not having a husband in her life and stuff like that. So like, I, I like the whole feminist in me and all that good stuff is like, no, come on.

We're better than this. But then, I mean, I, I hesitate to say that it's fixed post Catwoman because she's not necessarily like, I don't need no man. That's not really the case, and we, we will get to that eventually, but yeah, so it's, it's, I I love the [00:18:00] transformation and we're, we're gonna cover all of this stuff and her execution of the Catwoman and all of it is really amazing. I just, I bristle up against the like person who seems to only be longing for their stereotypical gender norm in 1992.

Yeah, I'm gonna, yes. And what you said, I agree with your point that it isn't the most pro-feminist beginning of a character, but I think deeper than her meeting a man, I don't think this is a woman who knows herself. If you look at her first shot, she is so small. She is microscopic.

She's in the background shot of all these men talking around a boardroom table, and she doesn't get a closeup for a while into the movie. Everything is a medium shot with her, and she doesn't get a closeup for a long time. And the closest that she comes to having her own space is when she intrudes upon Christopher Walkin [00:19:00] shot to pour coffee into his cup.

And he gives her this little side eye that I fucking love because it's this look of how dare you, you are right in front of me while I'm trying to do businessman things with my businessman friends. So yeah, I, I, I definitely, I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree, but I feel it was done for a reason.

I agree with that. I agree with that's probably how they were trying to show This is a person who doesn't quite like, have confidence in themselves and their identity yet,

Oh, for sure.

change.

Yeah. That shit will change real fast. One of my favorite scenes, and I have so many favorite scenes in this film, because it really is, they don't do scene work like they did in this movie anymore. The scenes aren't super short, they have time to breathe. And the scene that we move on to of her and Christopher Watkins office [00:20:00] saying that she broke into the protected files and she's just rattling off all the things she did kind of stupidly, she should have kept that to herself.

There definitely was a moment where I was like, girl

steve, in your opinion, why Why do you think she just told on herself?

I think it's potentially she got caught by her boss in something that she wasn't supposed to be in and just kind of had like she pre catwoman. Selena strikes me as someone who vomit truths when they're nervous.

Yep. That was definitely vomit. Truthing, definitely I did this thing, but then, okay, Steve, did you catch that little look? And this is why Michelle Pfeiffer's performance also pre Catwoman fucks me up after she vomits roofs. And Christopher Watkins says How industrious she smirks a little bit because she feels like she's being acknowledged for her brilliance, and it's, if you blink, [00:21:00] you'll miss it.

But I think she also wants him to know how clever she is.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm gonna, yes. And you here and say that they lay out her being a skilled burglar in this as well. Like she just doesn't become catwoman and all of a sudden she has crazy dexterity. And the ability, the ability to break into things like they're laying out that she is smart and she can crack passwords and crack codes and saves now, She doesn't feel like she's in danger until she realizes she's in danger. So I think your point right there is very correct that she caught the compliment before she ever considered that she was gonna get pushed out of a fucking window.

Oh yeah, and just to flip it back onto Christopher Walkin dude, his eyes, the way he was looking at her the entire time, gives me chills. This motherfucker did not blink. Did not [00:22:00] avert his stare.

He is a good villain.

he's a good villain. I would say he's the scariest villain in this movie. He's the scariest villain. The least capable physically, maybe, but he's definitely a good manipulator.

And a good swindler.

Yeah. Well, he's arguably the most in control of the strings the whole time.

Oh,

It's, it's like when you beat, when you beat like the Darth Mall and you've, you know, there's still palpatine out there.

Oh yeah,

don't know if that's a clean comparison, but, you know, I, I've been watching a lot of Star Wars lately, so

that's the cleanest comparison. So he's palpating all over the place and he corners. Selena

is his mall.

Penguin is his mall. So Selena gets pushed out of a window and we have this fabulous sequence of her being revived by Kaz, which in any other movie would be so ridiculous. And I'm gonna [00:23:00] do a segue that is related to this film. Batman Returns was followed by Batman Forever, but that was definitely a soft reboot of the franchise because everybody except Alfred and Commissioner Gordon were recast.

And the aesthetic was different. It was more kid friendly. Batman had nipples in his suit, all of a sudden, Selena Kyle was nowhere to be found. But I would say the closest that we get to a In Universe sequel to Batman Returns is God help us all. The 2004 Catwoman with Holly Berry, which I am gonna say was ahead of its time in some ways, but suffered from a bad script and maybe a director that wasn't focused on the right things.

in Catwoman, this is another RI trophy trophy, Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman is referenced and we see [00:24:00] a picture of her the Catwoman superpowers are passed on from a Egyptian cat, God that chooses women as host for the powers that it has to offer. And this is all definitely reccon in.

But what we're seeing right now, if we're looking at the broad continuity, is an Egyptian cat. God choosing Selena as its newest vessel. So. We're seeing all of these cats sent by this Egyptian God to pass on the gifts of Catwoman to Selena. So we're seeing her pretty much become quote unquote, the chosen one right now.

But to be honest, if I had to zoom out, I don't need that mythology. I kind of like it not being explained and it not being touched, because we're in a Tim Burton movie. I don't need to know why the cats are doing this. I [00:25:00] just saw a penguin on a duck. There's a bat signal in the sky. People are popping out of Christmas presents.

I just, I would've accepted it, and I love that Burton knew that the audience didn't need that much explanation of why the cats revived her. What do you think? Did you find this to be so weird?

My read on it, I didn't really develop until later on in the movie because they reference The cat's having nine lives a couple times. So I actually kind of was like, oh, what if the cat's running all over her and kind of doing all of that, that they were all collectively transferring their, one of their nine lives into Selena, therefore giving her the nine lives of a cat.

So they all kind of like, yes, you've been nice to us. We're gonna, we're gonna save you and give you one of our lives. A piece to like give you the life of a cat woman.

You

basically how I read it, which feels Tim Burton weird.

that feels Tim Burton weird. Yes. And that's a cleaner way [00:26:00] to describe it than what 2000 Fours Catwoman did, because painting Catwoman as this Messiah figure that gets chosen by a God defeats the purpose of the character because that almost makes her read as more of a royal and more of somebody who is on the upper echelons of society, at least in terms of being a superhero.

And Catwoman is at her best when she's an avenging angel and she's been wronged and she's saying, fuck the man I'm gonna steal from the rich. and not give to the poor. Just gonna keep it for myself.

I think that's something that I like about the catwoman of the, the animated series is that she seems to have this like kind of empathic relationship with the cats around her that aren't necessarily like she's a goddess or a deity.

It's just like she's down with the cats and the cats are down with her. And I feel like maybe there's a little bit of that [00:27:00] connection being made here as well.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I'm all for it. I'm also all for how Selena goes into her apartment, rattled blood streaked across her face, like war paint does the same walkthrough that she did a couple of scenes ago, but she's like a zombie and she doesn't utter a word, but all of the emotions flickering across her face are amazing.

I think the way that I interpreted this, this is what it feels like when you are . Awakened to the fact that you have not been your whole self and you just wanna step outside of your comfort zone to be more of a bold version of you. I think as a gay man, that's what I'm seeing with this because the first thing that most of us do when we come out of the closet is tell people that we're done being in the closet and that [00:28:00] we're ready to lead more authentic lives that's the level that this speaks to me on. What do you think of her Catwoman costume, Steve?

BEfore I talk about the Catwoman costume, I just wanna have a moment for her chugging milk as she was zombie shuffling around the apartment, which is one, I think just really awesome character development. And two a yum that I didn't know I had until I watched it for myself. So Michelle Pfeiffer chugging hole milk.

Let's write that down on the short list. No, I mean, I think I think the full transformation into Catwoman was iconic, and I like, gosh, I love that way that you identify with it. I, and I mean, what a, what a moment that must have been for like three, four, 5-year-old Charlie. That's also just like figuring out who they are and, and starting to develop this like, oh, this moment of self-realization means something to me.

And whether or not you knew what that meant in the moment fully for yourself, you knew that there was something there and you really seem to grasp onto that, which I think is super special.

I think that I knew [00:29:00] on a subconscious level what was happening. And it wasn't until like five or six years ago that I watched this movie and it clicked in my head, oh, I'm watching a queer person really step into themselves. And if we're being honest, the reason Selena was pushed out of a window is because she took up too much space.

her being punished for taking up space and then coming back and deciding to take up even more space is the gayest shit ever. in a beautiful way. .

Yeah. Yeah.

yeah. So I, I, I definitely, I love this film and I just love all the, all of the layers of it. Moving on to the next part of the film, penguin having his homecoming and.

Becoming a media darling is a part of the film that used to bore me as a kid, but now as an adult, like I said earlier, [00:30:00] I really appreciate what he says on TV and how he opens up about his pain. Steve, when you were watching it, do you think he was being honest when he spoke about not understanding why his parents did what they did, but accepting that that was their reality and it was the best that they could do?

Like, because he sounds like somebody, what I love about this is that he sounds like somebody who, even though he's got a lot of issues, has done a small part of the work of my parents weren't perfect and what they did was fucked up, but maybe it had nothing to do with me. . That's what I read into that little moment.

Oh, that's funny. I feel like his motivations behind that statement means you can't take him saying that. It's not about me. Seriously.

Mm.

of all of the stuff that's going on in the background. I think it's true up until that point, I think that he [00:31:00] can believe that that was their reality, but I don't think he accepts it because if he truly accepted it, then we wouldn't have the rest of the movie.

We wouldn't have his destructive anger, we wouldn't have any of his desire to destroy anyone that stands against him or anything like that. So I, I just don't think there would be that kind of like violence behind it. But like sure, I, I think that you can be telling the truth about wanting to figure out why and having some understanding of like, that was the choice that they made.

But yeah, I think he tries to light too much shit on fire for us to be like, oh yeah, maybe he's like on the way to being healed. Who knows. Maybe if someone like embraced him truly and didn't immediately try and make him a puppet in a power struggle, then maybe there was a chance for him. But there's also that factor of it as well. So maybe that's the glimmer of hope that we see that gets stamped out by Christopher Walken doing his straight white man thing.

Yeah. Yes. And to what [00:32:00] you said, I read into it that way because Michael Keaton's performance and the way that he watches penguins say that he believes it. And it's funny because I am Bruce in that moment and I'm watching this person just want so badly to find his parents. And this is what I love about Batman.

At the end of that scene. after Bruce is watching Penguin on tv, he says, I hope he finds them. I thought that was so beautiful because he doesn't start from a place of being threatened by him. He starts with seeing his humanity. And that's something that the animated series expands upon with all the villains.

But it's something that I really caught a glimmer of in this moment of the film.

After that, we see Penguin being a media darling, Batman, getting more suspicious and suspecting that Penguin is in control of the Red Triangle Gang. Then we get [00:33:00] this sweet, sweet scene of Selena fully stepping into the Catwoman persona and beating up a rapist in a back alley. I, oh my God, the amount of times that I put on my mom's heels as a child and just.

Acted this out for her, not in private for her. I'm like, mom, watch me . I'm gonna act out this scene from Batman returns. The fact that she did not know that she was raising a gay man is completely, I don't know what was going on in her head,

what?

Wait.

the, the cognitive dissonance of my mom. But when you're, when you're like a five-year-old boy, I don't think that your parents really are quick to like, push sexuality onto you.

But yeah, I would like put on my mom's boots and like stomp around pretending to be cat woman in like elementary school.

Hell, hell yeah.[00:34:00]

Hell yeah.

awesome.

Yeah.

awesome.

Oh my God. What did you think of the scene, like just her introduction.

It was nuts, dude. was. I mean like, yes. A great scene where she does a great thing. She kind of yells at the woman, which I found really funny.

I felt problematic. I'm glad you brought it

gotta, you gotta protect yourself. What are you doing? And then she's like, ha up. And then just like back flipped outta there. And, and then she was just gone. Like, it was very, like those seeds and family guy of the two, like Ringling brothers going nuts the entire time. Like H up ho Catwoman, flip it in, kick as a ass, flip it away.

Protect yourself, buy a knife. Like it, it was, it was absolutely unhinged and I loved every second of it.

Oh my God.

I, I'm never gonna look at Michelle Pfeiffer the same. Not that I was looking at her much different, but you know what I mean?

Oh my God, yes. And to what you just said, I think what we saw right there with that woman was Catwoman projecting onto her. I think [00:35:00] Catwoman was projecting what she felt about herself and letting herself get killed. So what we're really seeing . Is, I would say the anger part of her grief cycle. She is grieving what was taken away from her.

You know, she was the victim of an assault. If we're really being honest and in being the victim of an assault, what you do is that you, at least from stories I've heard from my friends, this isn't true for everybody. And I'm not saying it has to be, but what I read from this moment was her not being able to really come to peace with the fact that that happened to her and that she didn't deserve it. But moving on to the next scene in the office where Christopher Walken and Michael Keaton are having a scene of them just reading each other for filth.

So Selena links [00:36:00] into the office, a completely transformed woman. And this is another thing I love about Michelle Pfeiffer's performance. She plays four different versions of Catwoman in this movie. She is the Meek Catwoman in the beginning. She's the super confident Catwoman that we see in the alleyway.

She is the Selena who is caught in between and doesn't quite know who she should be. And she is also the Catwoman that has a murder streak. So there's four different versions of this character that keep changing depending upon who she's talking to. But I find it very interesting that most, if not all of her scenes are with men.

What do you think of, 'cause now at this point of the movie, we're moving into not only Penguin being manipulated into becoming mayor but [00:37:00] Christopher Walken just battening down the hatches on his manipulation. What do you think of this whole subplot of Penguin as mayor?

It was an interesting turn. I think something that I never really captured watching. It was what Christopher Watkins plan was beyond just like having power. Was he just like angling to have like the strings of Gotham through Penguin as the mayor and then he gets to unlock? It didn't really seem like I, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong about this, I didn't seem to capture like, what happens after Penguin becomes mayor other than just like, oh, I'm actually the mayor because I'm, I'm gonna be controlling this, this thing.

You hit the nail on the head. I, I think the plan was as simple as that.

Yeah,

it was just, oh, now I have more power. I have a mayor in my pocket. But if we're looking at this more critically, I have to wonder what. Possessed Christopher Walken to think that he would [00:38:00] be able to keep a muzzle on Penguin while he was in office and really just keep control of him.

When Penguin gained more power, penguin has a gang in his corner. Penguin bites off people's noses. 'cause that's something that we're, that we're doing. teacher, my French

teacher, my french flipper trick . yEah, that, that was nuts.

You know what? Let's talk about that now. Let's talk about that

let's just talk about it now. When he turned and b that dude's nose, I literally went, oh wow. Like we're doing this holy shit. Like I, I was shocked. I was shocked that that was so in our faces and just like blood everywhere was very, it was very grotesque.

that alone should have put it into a rated RT territory.

That's nuts

what the hell were the [00:39:00] censors thinking, letting this movie be PG 13 after that. But also, if you really want to kick out of that scene, rewatch that moment. But pay attention to Christopher Walkins acting while it's happening. And his facial expression. It's so funny. His facial expression is all of us in that moment watching it.

It's so funny. It's so

funny. Just it's the first time you see that character like, oh, oh wow, okay. That's what we're doing.

I'll tell you what I think anyone who was ever surprised that Danny DeVito chose to go onto, it's always sunny in Philadelphia, probably never watched this movie

oh.

this was all use case for him. Going on to, it's always sunny and just being the weirdest gr grossest dude. Possible

The weirdest, grossest, and also most beautiful of the peacocks. Just he's peacocking everywhere here. It's so funny. MoVing on, and [00:40:00] I, I definitely want your take on this moment because I think that this set piece, bouncing from Batman to Catwoman, back to Batman to Catwoman, and seeing Batman. attack the gang as they ransack different shops and burn buildings down.

Shows that Batman's all about restoring order. And as we cut to Catwoman, pretty much knocking the heads off mannequins, we see that she's all about creating chaos and inciting violence and showing the duality of both of them and how they're different sides of the coin is really effective, not just from a story perspective, but also an editing perspective.

I think this momentum of this 12 minutes of film inside this movie is one of my favorite action sequences of all time. I think it is so fucking good. Like the fighting could be a little bit more polished. This was, again, [00:41:00] the nineties and superhero movies weren't on Captain America winter soldier level like 'cause I would love

Batman doing, you know, more polished martial arts. 'cause it kind of looks, it looks like stage combat, not gonna lie, but so many other aspects of it are so heightened and so next level that you really get a kick out of it. Yeah, everything from the department store to Batman, blowing up a big thug with a bomb to him facing off with Penguin and saying, you don't think you'll win, do you?

To him getting seduced by Catwoman and her saying meow in the department store blowing up and then them fighting on the rooftop and her saying, how could you, I'm a woman. Just nuts. Steve, just I want you to let loose and just tell me all your thoughts about this sequence. 'cause it is just my favorite.

Well, I guess when I, when I was like, oh, I guess I have seen seconds of this movie, I've actually seen like a behind the scenes like [00:42:00] TikTok of Michelle Pfeiffer doing the whip mannequin scene. Like that's all practical effects. She. Walked through and hit all four of the heads off of the mannequins in one shot, and like there's a thunderous round of applause afterwards because it was actually her doing it, which is way harder to do than it, it actually looks. So that's really, really impressive. I did also, it's funny that you say that the, you wouldn't hit a woman and it's also like it's a little bit Stuff that Anne Hathaway pulled into her performance

Mm-Hmm.

in, in the Dark Knight Rises where it's like, it's a total fake out, but like, it was something that I thought right away too.

It was like, oh, damn, Batman gave her the backhand because he was just like, okay. She keeps hitting me. Like I have to get, I have to get her to stop hitting me. She has razor sharp claws that are gonna get me at some point.

Like I gotta do something. And she immediately uses that to her advantage and then immediately flips back the other way and gives 'em the old one too.

So I just, that's just like when you see stuff that has been used in other places, you [00:43:00] know, that that's like where the groundwork was. So that was

like very clear, like, here's fundamental catwoman groundwork that's being laid for media to try and chase moving forward.

Yeah. I thought that was incredible. I, I love that rooftop fight scene because, and here's where the,

' cause I know I just talked shit about the fight choreography a couple of minutes ago. . But I think one of the rare moments that it really works in the film is on the rooftop scene because it feels more like a dance than it does a fight. It really does feel like this beautiful ballet happening between them, just the kicks, the choreography, her taking out the whip and just whipping Batman around her, throwing him off the roof.

It feels less of a fight and more like lovers courting each other in this really violent, absurd way that I'm into. [00:44:00] I'm into how powerful she looks while she's in every shot of this moment. I love how taken off guard by her, her, he is in more ways than one. I love that. . He smiles when she's kind of feeling up on him.

Then she stabs him with her claws. Just everything about this dynamic is amazing and Catwoman is doing most of the talking and Keaton's doing some really great acting just with his eyes.

Can I also equate like she's acting very much so how a cat would like, you know, that your cat loves you, but then that thing all claw the shit outta you if you're not, you know, just for no reason. I was gonna say if you're not careful, but even just for no reason that just the wind change and they clawed you.

So it's, it's honestly like if you think about it a little bit harder, I really like the parallels there.

yeah, such a good realization of that character. Also, does Batman technically kill her because he knocks her off the roof and she lands [00:45:00] inside of a truck full of kitty litter, she says, saved by kitty litter.

Yeah, I think we're going with like an Assassin's Creed, kinda like you jumped from 300 feet and you fell into a bale of hay and you're okay.

Mm-Hmm.

I, I, I don't think that was one of her lives. 'cause it, it's because it was referenced so clearly when she was like, oh, I still have X amount of lives left. I feel like anytime that it wasn't explicitly like, oh, I still, that's only my third life or whatever.

Because she kept, I mean we're, we're, we're kind of cutting to the end a little bit or we're stepping on the end a little bit. Like she's getting shot and literally counting her lives out and how many she has left.

Hmm.

in any moment where that's not happening, I tend to be like, okay, that's just like a superhero cartoony moment.

Yeah, yeah. In the aftermath of that moment, just Batman taking the claw out of his stomach and. Just going meow. He likes that shit. [00:46:00] He's into it.

S and m by Rihanna plays

Oh my God.

Yes. But what really fucks me up, which takes it to the next level, which really should have clinched a r rating for this movie, Catwoman.

Surprising Penguin at his layer. And the first thing he says when he sees her is, Ooh, just the pussy. I've been looking for . Who wrote this? How horny were they? Do we need to check on them?

He like humps the air multiple times in this seed too. Like you just get full like Danny DeVito bump, like thrusting through the air towards Catwoman in this sea, and it's ridiculous. It's so uncomfortable.

It's so uncomfortable. I love this scene though, just because you're seeing two actors completely disappear into their characters. Like she also, if I'm going into her head a little bit, she's aware of the power that she holds over him with her [00:47:00] sexuality, and she's using it like a weapon. We saw a little bit of it in the boardroom when she says, that's my name, maxilla.

Don't wear it out or make you buy me a new one. We're seeing her really take up space and own a room in a way that pre Catwoman Selena could never ridler trophy for you. Steve, did you know that the bird, Michelle Pfeiffer stuffed inside of her mouth was an actual bird?

No way.

It was a live bird, and when she opened

Woo.

the bird actually flew from her mouth.

That's nuts. That's commitment right there, man.

She should have been nominated, she should have been nominated for this movie in 1993. But I digress.

be supporting? She'd be supporting because she's not the main character in the movie.

I think she would've been supporting, I don't know if she would've

You don't think she would've been best actress?

No, because it [00:48:00] wasn't. It was Batman Returns and Michael Keaton was playing the titular character. I think she also didn't have top billing. It was Michael Keaton. Danny DeVito, Michelle Pfeiffer.

All right. Let's do this as a thought exercise really quick. We're getting into our ringer bag right now. We're going back to the 1993 Best actress in a supporting role. Nominees. You've got Judy Davis for Husbands and Wives, Joan Plowright for Enchanted. April, Vanessa Red Gray for Howard's and Miranda Richardson for Damage.

And Marissa Tome for my cousin Vinny, which is the only movie I've seen out of those five. And Pro, like honestly, just my bias. I want Marissa Tome to have all of the things. So have you seen all of these movies? Is this just like a lost practice for us? 'cause we haven't seen any of these. Heady 1993 best supporting actress

It might be,

movies.

I'm totally useless. I've seen none of those.

I think. I think it points to the times though, like we we're We are in a time where amazing [00:49:00] performances in movies like this get more critical recognition. They get more academy recognition like the, the Heath ledger performances get the Academy like I, I mean there's like the, ever since Heath Ledger, basically like people who could put up performances like this in movies like this are going to get more recognition from places like this.

So like in 1993, we couldn't hope for Michelle Pfeiffer to crack a best supporting actress role. But if you put this movie in 2023, we'd probably be talking about it.

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Such great work that continues to find fans. I mean, go figure. I was this character for Halloween last year, . yEah, so the, the performance definitely stands the test of time.

We need that photo as our Instagram photo to promote this episode.

Oh my god.

Catwoman outfit

Yeah.

That we, we need that. We, we needed it like yesterday,

We will link it in the show notes, folks, don't you worry.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So [00:50:00] moving on, Catwoman and Penguin decide to team up with each other to take down Batman. Bruce and Selena have another meet. Cute. Where Bruce finally gets the courage to ask Selena over, and we have this very down to earth. This is another one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

Just two characters out of costume talking. What did you think of this scene?

this was good. I mean, they, they clearly wanted to set up this like There's two people that are living two separate lives, and neither of them can talk about it with each other, but the other one like clearly feels that this thing is true about the other person as well. Like they, they clearly understand that there is like a kindred understanding between the two of them

with this romantic connection, and they haven't quite parsed out the former, but they also understand that there is this ladder happening as well.

I just, it it, it makes you, the viewer who knows everything that's going [00:51:00] on, enjoy it even more because you know that they don't understand what's happening, but you kind of do.

Yeah. They're drawn to each other like there's this animal magnetism happening because they have a very deep understanding of their alter egos. And the depths of who they are as people. And it's what Selena tries to articulate when she says the so-called normal guys always let you down.

At least serial killers are normal in their own fucked up way because they're being honest. And then we see Batman get framed for murderer in this gnarly sequence, which I think, and if I'm being honest, every time I watch the movie, it's after this part where Batman gets framed, that my attention span for the movie starts to diminish just a little bit like I.[00:52:00]

Love this movie, but after the Batmobile gets hacked and after he's framed for the Ice Princess being pushed onto the Christmas tree, I think this movie. Mm. And I'll say this in the batter ring rating, the movie starts to overstay. Its welcome a little bit for me. How do you feel about this?

How do you feel about the pacing after all that stuff?

You know, I didn't really have a problem with the pacing. I don't really think I ever started to check my watch, and maybe this is me just being like, you know what, and actually I was thinking about this, so I think I'll put it here. I think especially with the first time you watch something, something that takes me out of the experience is when I can go, oh, I can see how they're gonna end this.

I can figure out, like, I

Mm.

I can see that like, this is the bad guy, or I can see them moving towards this point or whatever. I, at no point had any fucking clue [00:53:00] how they were gonna wrap this up. I just didn't, I had no idea, especially after this happened and now all of a sudden Batman's frame for murder, I'm like, okay, there's 30 minutes left.

Like, what the hell are we doing? Like, how are we, how are we getting to the other side of this to a resolution and me saying, 30 minutes left, that's a rough guess. I could be on or off by 15 minutes on that one. But like, I felt engaged with all of it, mostly because like, oh, I just, I'm so curious how they're gonna finish this that I just, I'm in because I can't figure it out.

This movie is unpredictable, which makes it fun. Definitely for somebody to see you for the first time. Ugh, you're so lucky that you got to experience this for the first time.

I just, yeah. This, this is the part of the movie where I start to, Ugh, penguin, come on, turn corrupt again. So I, I start to, I start to lose patience for it all though. I will say the only scene aside from the last two scenes in this movie that I [00:54:00] really adore after what I just mentioned, are the masquerade ball, where we get another great human moment between Bruce and Selena, where they're, you know, connecting again and they realize what their alter egos are.

That was really well done. What, what do you think? What do you think that night would've looked like if they made it out of the building?

If they had made it out of the building, knowing who the other person was,

Yeah.

oh man, they're fucking all night

Ah, yes. They are, they are

rightly so.

Masks on.

they're like, oh, now that

opposite of how he ripped the mask off at the end. It's just that ripped off head of Batman on and nothing else,

she rips it off for him.

They're,

just clapping at that

they're going at it rightly

see me? Sorry, mom.

I agree. I agree. Yes. And to that, I think [00:55:00] that would've been interesting to see not the sex part really. 'cause there's a bunch of porn parodies for that. But the, after the relationship part, to see how they really relate to each other and how they talk through all the shit that they get up to in the nighttime.

That would've been fun.

I mean, yeah, if, if really, if we had our way about this, Batman Forever doesn't exist or it exists in a way where it's a direct sequel with them working and living together in some capacity and them trying to like figure out their fucked up relationship with another villain that really inserts a real wedge between them, which is probably when like a poison ivy could have come in and done some shit.

Ooh, that is sick. Skipping ahead to the end, I think if I were to rewrite this, I would've gone. after the ball straight to his plan, he has Christopher walking in a cage. He is planning to blow up [00:56:00] Gotham. I would've skipped the stuff with the sons just for pacing's sake because showing him go from one failed plan to another failed plan was a bit much for me.

'cause then it felt a little bit like, alright, now we're making penguins seem a bit incompetent. the, the plan of him blowing up Gotham, I think that was an opportunity to show not only how much of a charisma Mastermind he could be, but also a chance for Batman to really be put under pressure to stop this before it happened.

What did you think of electric kiss in the end of Christopher Walken?

The, oh man, that was so good, man. I like, again, another thing that should not have let this movie stay as of PG 13 when they like uncover the rubble and it's like fucking Raiders of the Lost Arc, like skeleton fried Christopher Walken, which was absolutely nuts.[00:57:00]

Crispy walkin,

so Crispy Walken, oh my God but no, I mean, it's a, it was an APTT conclusion.

I mean, it was, it was Selena's revenge. It was, she got, she got our guy back for, for killing her. She, she got her just desserts. Her her kiss of death. It was very Molina from Mortal Kombat. A little, little kiss of death from Molina vibes.

But I liked it. I mean, it was the right kind of brutal. And Tim Burney, I feel like just at this point, Timney is, is an ad, it is an adjective on how I describe things,

Yes, yes.

what it means.

I love when things are Tim Burey, within Reason .

Yes. Yeah.

yeah, that was great. Also, the way that Crispy Watkin's death was framed really shows how Burton felt about him as the villain of the peace, because when Penguin dies, it's much more sympathetic and when the penguins go to push him back into the water, I feel a twinge of something.

It's not grief, it's [00:58:00] not sadness. I think it's just, poor guy, really. I mean, he was very fucked up, but

Crispy walkin is the victory

Mm,

and penguin's the collateral.

yeah. He's the collateral who got manipulated. I think if he had kidnapped Bruce Wayne or he and Bruce Wayne had met, I. . I think Bruce might've come closer to helping Penguin reach a redemption arc or reach some form of peace. I don't know if it would've panned out entirely, but I think we would've gotten to see a lot more of the glimmer that I spoke about earlier.

Another fun fact. the very ending of this movie where Bruce gets Salina's cat, 'cause he sees her shadow in the alleyway. That last shot of Cat Woman's head looking up at the bat signal was added at the very last minute because the studio loved Cat [00:59:00] Woman's performance so much that they didn't want her to be killed off and they wanted her to be brought back for a sequel.

So that's not Michelle Pfeiffer's head, that's a double. They had to find another mask and they had to shoot that. Right before release, maybe days or half a day before, just to make sure that the audience knew Catwoman was coming back.

Wow, man. What could have been.

I know, I know. I know. It's a lot.

We covered a whole lot. We've been, we've been digging into this movie. It was really fun to sit down and watch something different for me. So thanks for letting me into one of your favorite things on the planet and giving us so much kind of information from your head about how you feel and how you've interpreted this awesome movie.

And I had a lot of fun talking about it with you. We can quickly roll through all the characters. I actually wanna start with Alfred 'cause there's, he's, I don't think we talked about Alfred once in this one.

No, that's a shift.

ahead. Go ahead.

Alfred, I. I love when he says . [01:00:00] Alfred's just so dry. He's so dry in this. He's like, are you still obsessed with this strange, heroic penguin creature? Must you be the only lonely man, beast.

I know he was very, I do feel like he was a little bit more droll and dry and stuff like that. This, of course, this Alfred was played by Michael Goff who was the Alfred and Batman, 1989 as well. And then he came back for the role in Batman forever as well.

Yeah. And Batman and Robin.

So he reprised the role through all of those reboots as well.

So a little bit of the, the, the Batman extended universe of that era, if you will. But yeah, I, I, oh man, Alfreds are so interesting. I do feel like this Alfred and the animated series Alfred have a lot of parallels in how the current guy, the one that just changed over into the current episodes, does it, which is a little bit drier for my taste. I like my Alfred, my Alfred with a little bit more flavor. Of course,

I I don't know if anyone, Michael Kane's kind of the goat of Alfred, I'm not sure you can get a better

[01:01:00] Michael Kane is just impeccable. Impeccable. He's incredible.

I do wanna have a moment for Andy Circus, just because Andy Circus is amazing in everything that he does,

Oh,

absolutely. I watched the Batman last night actually, because it's kind

nice.

it kind of echoes some of the Batman returns plot points if you really look at it. Batman, Catwoman, penguin, they're all in it. Riddler's in it. I think Ridler was originally supposed to be in this sequel, so I find that really interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. What did you think of Penguin overall?

dude. I mean, we talked about it a little bit, like what a coming out for Danny DeVito like in terms of just someone that can show crazy range and just total commitment to something. And like I said, the way that he moved, the way that he sounded while he moved, I felt like I could smell him the whole time.

Whoa.

What did he smell like?[01:02:00]

Oh, just fucking fish, dude. Gross at like a fish market for sure. And not in like the cool afroman way, like in the gross, like, please get me outta here as quickly as possible way. It, I just like it like in those moments, in that scene where Catwoman is, is on his bed and they're talking, I'm just like, how would, how are you that close to that guy?

Like, is that not just like repulsive for you to be standing two inches away from this like blob of a gross human? So I just 12 outta 10 for me, in terms of the penguin and the, I mean, the only thing that made me sad is that we don't get more penguin building a criminal empire like we get in like the arc of asylum video games and stuff like that where penguins, or even the Batman these days, the Matt Reeves movies where penguin's more of a crime boss and he's more of like a competent crime lord, more so than a weirdo freak that was pulled outta the sewers as trying to figure out how to exist as a human being.

Well, Steve, I have good news for you.

Oh, do you?

That version of the [01:03:00] Penguin played by Colin Farrell. Is getting his own HBO Max series called Penguin, where we get to see him do exactly that set. And the continuity of Matt Reeves is the Batman.

Say less. I'm in.

Yeah. Say less. Say less. I agree. Pat Penguin's definitely a tragic figure and as I get older and more aware of the ways that society doesn't give access to everybody who's different, I feel for the Penguin more.

whAt did you think of my girl? Catwoman?

Oh man. I mean, again, like iconic, iconic stuff. Geez. Michelle Pfeiffer just on the Pantheon now, honestly. And. I'm the pantheon of what, that's for me to know and for you to just wonder what I mean about that. So

Yeah,

out to Michelle Pfeiffer. Just I, iconic performance. I man, the, the costuming, the, again, like, I think the physical performances of pretty much everyone in this movie is just something [01:04:00] to be absolutely heralded and like between Dan DeVito and Michelle Pfeiffer, like their physical performances are just top-notch.

Oh, for sure, for sure. It was such, they showed up, they cooked, they were committed, they understood the assignment. Catwoman, that performance is just such an important piece of media for me. I've gone into the reasons why, but I'll just say, yeah, this movie and the part she played in it make me very happy.

Moving onto Batman, I have something that I thought about while we were recording this earlier.

I think. Batman was definitely underserved in this movie. He popped up, but he felt a bit more like a plot device in this, in a way that he didn't. In the 1989 movie, Batman was a plot device and Bruce felt like a passive character, and if [01:05:00] I were to rewrite this, I think that to make Bruce more integral to the part, and also to have more moments with him in Oswald, I think that Bruce should have also had a run for Mayor.

Bruce is running for mayor while the penguin is running for mayor, so his public persona is at war with him as well as his private persona. I think that that would've added another neat level of duality to the film. Also, I believe that the comics have covered maybe in the new 52 Batman comics I. Bruce does run for mayor, and I know that in Acue City, Bruce is running for mayor as cover for him trying to investigate ACU City.

So that would've been a cleaner way into the mayor subplot and kind of given Bruce more opportunities to shine without sacrificing any of the Selena shit. But yeah, that would've been neat to see.

[01:06:00] Oh yeah. I would've loved like a, a Bruce penguin debate scene

Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

been nuts with like Christopher walking in the background, like trying to feed penguin the lion and doing like pulling strings or whatever, and, and them having like a public town hall debate that, that would've been really cool.

Oh, absolutely. For sure. For sure, for sure. sO battering ratings I'll let you go first. What's your rating of this movie?

Well Charlie, I'm going to give Batman returns my banger status of four outta five batter rings.

Okay.

this is a great movie. I think it's a banger. I'd have to watch them back to back, but I honestly would like have to think really hard about whether I like this one or 1989 more.

Hmm mm.

actually like really both up there and in terms of like obviously overall Batman films, obviously they're classics and clear a lot of what came after them until the Christopher Nolan film started coming about.

But yeah, man, I [01:07:00] love this. Like I would absolutely go back and watch this again

I don't say for a lot of movies.

wow. Yeah. Thank you for loving something I love so much. I'm gonna surprise you. I'm not giving this five batter rings, which means it's a masterpiece. I still wanna reserve that for something else. I'm gonna be really hard on anything that I decide to give that to. I'm gonna give this. Four and a half batter rings, four and a half batter rings.

it is such a staple of my life and just the reasons why I like Batman. But now as a writer looking at it, I think the story could have been tighter. That movie, what keeps it from being a five battering rating is that for me, overstated. Its welcome. And that third act could have been a little bit more of a race to the finish as opposed to starting and stopping [01:08:00] and starting and stopping it. It felt, the pacing for me felt weird. After Batman got framed for murder, it felt. , like Burton wasn't sure how to tie up all the loose ends a little bit. And he did. And a lot of beautiful stuff came out of that ending.

But it would've been a masterpiece if they were able to get to the finale in a more eloquent way. It felt a little clunky to me in Act three.

Gotcha. Totally. Well, here we are. I mean, I think that was Probably the highest batter rings we've given anything yet on. Charlie and Steve watch stuff. So both of our highest ratings for any sort of media so far. So Batman returns. Good job by

Mm-Hmm.

Charlie. Anything else to say about our little special Christmas time adventure before we get outta here?

No. No, not really. But before we say goodbye do we wanna throw out one movie each that we want to recommend to our listeners?

I would love to.

I'm going to [01:09:00] recommend one of the only Christmas movies that I've watched so far this year, and if I'm being too up the center with this recommendation, I don't care because I love it and I watch it every year. I encourage you to go watch the movie Elf and try not to smile like an idiot the whole time because it is a movie that makes you feel good about life.

And if you need a little bit of Christmas spirit in your life, there is nothing like a Will Ferrell claiming that he's only 30 years old screaming about knowing Santa Claus the entire time. So shout out to Elf. It's one of my favorite Christmas movies, and it makes me feel good about life.

That's amazing. I've never seen Elf.

You've never seen Elf.

Girl, you've never seen Batman returns until we recorded this . But hey, that's an opportunity for us. I'm seeing opportunities for content.

FaIr.

FAir.

my recommendation for the audience is jingle all the Way with Arnold [01:10:00] Schwarzenegger and Sinbad, where they are racing to get a coveted turbo, man doll for their sons.

Can we talk about how fucking awesome Sinbad is for a second?

Yes.

I just love Sinbad. I just, I, someone I haven't thought about a lot of times Sinbad was such like a talk about a nineties staple.

Oh my God,

was the best.

for sure. The absolute best there

I forgot about, I've seen that movie. I forgot about that movie. I'm definitely gonna have to try and find that somewhere and watch it over the next few days.

I'm gonna watch Elf Tonight because of you.

Look at you. I'm pretty sure it's on Netflix right now.

All right, I'll do that.

It's somewhere accessible. I, I could be totally wrong about that, but I, we streamed it so I know you can get it somewhere pretty easily.

Oh, that's awesome,

Watch out.

All right. Well thank you everybody for joining us for another episode of Charlie and Steve. Watch stuff. Merry Christmas. Be safe. Spend time with your family and friends, and we'll see you soon.

Bye everybody. Merry [01:11:00] Christmas. Thanks for being here.