Charlie and Steve Watch Stuff

[00:00:00] Hi friends.

Welcome to Charlie and Steve, watch

stuff, the

podcast where friends get together

and

talk

about the stuff that they like to watch together. My name's Steve Snick and joining me as always, I really wanted to make a joke about good head versus bad head, but I'm just gonna go ahead and resist that temptation.

is Charlie Peppers.

How you doing Charlie?

I'm doing well my dude. We are digging into Harvey Dent. I'm excited.

Our

favorite corrupt,

d well corrupt

I don't know if corrupts the right word, but it's our favorite

district

attorney,

if we could ever like

district attorneys. But not only are we diving into our first two-parter in Batman, the animated series, we have the honor and the pleasure.

of welcoming Our first guest,

onto Charlie,

and Steve Tuff.

we have Joe Russo in the building. Joe, thank you so much for joining us. on Charlie

and Steve Tuff. How are you today?

I am

Well, thanks for having me, guys.

it is our pleasure. So before we get going,

I would love to Joe, for you to tell the audience about who you are and what you,

do

and

why you like to watch[00:01:00] a cartoon Batman like we do.

Well, you know,

starting with who I

am, I,

guess first

I

am a writer,

a director,

a producer a a recently retired podcaster And, and you've, you've gotten me back.

You know,

I've known

Charlie for

a

long time.

long, long time. So I'm very,

happy to be invited on your guys' show.

I'm, I'm, I'm honored to be your, maiden Voyage guest.

And yeah, Batman has always been

a part of my life ever.

since. You know, I was a little kid watching the Adam West show when the very dark 1989 movie came out that my parents wouldn't let me see. It was my mission to try to see it. And obviously, Batman, the Animated Show is, is such a, inspired spinoff of those first two Tim Burton Batman movies that

of

course I consumed it

every morsel of it as a, as a youngster.

So

it's [00:02:00] fun to dive back in.

and, and check out a couple old episodes with you.

We're stoked to have you here to do it. And yeah, this is definitely kind of like

your, your backdoor

sneaky way

of, of getting that grittier Batman content without the, the

parents necessarily understanding that it's more,

than just a cartoon.

but yeah, let's talk about how you and Charlie know each other. I know that there's some history there.

and I, I always love to hear about how, how friends connect and meet.

So, Charlie, why don't you go first how did you,

first connect with Joe?

Oh my God. So I've known Joe since 2014, I believe. 2014 or 2015. So that would make next year, either our ninth or 10th year of knowing each other in this space. I was fresh outta grad school and I got an internship at a production company called Level One Entertainment.

And the first person that I ran into, the person who hired me for the internship, Joe, I saw in the elevator coming up and Joe was just so friendly and warm. He was like, hello? [00:03:00] And I immediately thought, okay, I feel comfortable here. This seems like a cool dude. And I go in and there's an X-Men movie poster and the lobby, I don't know if I hid it well, but I was inside like, oh my God, they're connected to the first X-Men movie, which is such a staple of my childhood.

And also just seeing that poster and also being involved in being able to read scripts and do script coverage really opened up a different side of the industry to me in terms of what makes the rhythm of a script good versus what brings down the rhythm of a script. So I think a lot of the story sense that I got was from being on Joe's desk and from having him as a mentor and now a friend and

He's being really humble about just being a filmmaker. He's a very talented filmmaker. Everybody. Check out his work, check out his ig, also check out his sick burns on Twitter. Don't wanna miss out on those.[00:04:00] But yeah, I'm so happy to have him here because he's not only a huge Batman fan, he is such a fan of the comic book Medium and what it's able to do with characters and stories in a way that I think not everybody is tapped into.

'cause something that Joe and I have in common is that these stories helped raise us and they also helped us develop an intuitive grasp of what makes characters and stories click in a particular way. So, so happy to have you here, Joe.

No, thank you. And that, that's, that's all of that stuff's very sweet. You know, it was I was really lucky when I was kind of running the internship program at level one because we had

A lot of,

really. Great young people come through that program, and

honestly, they're all doing really well. I feel like some of them are doing better

than me now.

like Charlie and you know, but like, I mean, we've, we've had, you know, interns go on to be agents and, [00:05:00] and studio executives and development execs for producers and big casting people.

And, and Charlie's now a, a, you know, probably soon to be Emmy nominated writer, you know, like it's, it's been fun to really watch all of them kind grow. And, and you know, I, I, I take a little pride in that, you know

that, that I, I gave 'em

an initial push,

you know, but they, they did all the hard.

part. So,

you know, it's,

just fun for me. But

yeah, no, I think, I think Charlie's right, like

It was really apparent early on

two things. One, that Charlie's

coverage

stood head, you know, and shoulders above everybody else's 'cause he is a good writer. And

and so when he finally did

say,

Hey, will you read my screenplay?

It was, it was an easy yes because I knew it was going to be very readable

And

I

think the, the other part of that

is,

you know, we.

did bond over our love of comic books. Like we talked [00:06:00] about them endlessly during those, that time when he was in the internship program. We probably spent more time, we should have been working, talking about comic books.

So it's fun to be back and it's fun to do that again

and and I'm I'm really happy to be here. so

I

just wanna say,

hot take. I haven't seen this episode obviously in decades. You know, these, these, this two-parter, Two-Face episode

and I'm

just gonna say it now

'cause I think it could really anchor

our conversation,

I

think this is a

better

adaptation of Two-Face than the Dark Knight.

interesting,

Woo.

okay. All right. I,

Oh

yes.

put that in your pipe and smoke it and

Let's go.

It's def

smoke the shit out of that.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely gonna smoke that as well. It's, yes, and it's definitely a better interpretation than Batman forever. I will definitely

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, that's, that's, I mean, Tommy Lee. Okay. Are we, we're gonna do this now. We're gonna do this now

Let's just

do [00:07:00] it right now. Let's just do it. right now.

do it right now.

forever, is so much Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones doing a riff on. Jack Nicholson is the joker that, you know, it's like, look, I love Batman forever. It's super fun. It's such an important part of my childhood. I certainly recognize the fall off between Batman and Batman Returns and Batman forever in terms of overall quality.

And I

do think part of

that

is because they, they didn't have the depth that the villains had in the first couple movies. They were, they were very just surface

over the top.

which, you know, Obviously

even continued into the fourth movie in that run. And the less

set about that one the better.

Wait, wait, wait. Joe, the fourth Batman movie was over the top. What? What?

less said

About Batman,

and Robin, the better Charlie but I do think Batman Forever has its charms. But yeah, I mean, it doesn't really feel like Two-Face. It feels like. Lee [00:08:00] Jones is just doing a riff on Jack Nicholson's the Joker, and not really bringing any of the, the pathos that that character should have had.

you know it's really

kind of

a shame

that,

We never got to see Billy, Billy D. Williams run as Harvey Dent, you know? 'cause he gets at very kind of brief moments in the initial 1989 Batman. And I almost feel like visually the animated series kind of takes its cue from the look of Billy D.

Williams. You know? That's what I thought.

Rewatching it,

it's Kind of struck me

as

an adult

recognizing

that, that that the animated

series takes

its inspiration.

from those movies.

Did, Did anyone else

kind of grasp onto that or was I,

was I in, out in La la land?

Know, you were not at in La Lala land for our episode where we covered pretty poison where Poison Ivy gets introduced and she's dating Harvey Dent, I did recognize that Harvey [00:09:00] Dent's face was the most distinctly animated of everybody else's face, like the lines.

He has a long face. He's kind of unconventionally handsome. He's a little ethnically ambiguous too,

Yes. Yeah. right?

Yes. When I look at him, I'm like, he could be white, but maybe

but he could also not be right. Yeah,

Yeah, I caught that. So I think you're onto something. That is my head canon too, for the production.

I, I think that they were channeling Billy D. Williams for that.

Yeah. Well, and this would've come before Batman forever, I think. Right?

Mm-Hmm.

Yeah. This one was released in the fall of 92.

too. Yeah.

So, so they weren't,

so they were taking their cues I think from, you know, probably, 'cause

my understanding is

if Tim Burton had come back for a third movie, I think he was going to eventually explore Two-Face. And that probably would've brought Billy D. Williams back to do it.[00:10:00] Which, can you imagine if Lando Calrissian had played Two-Face?

Like, come on,

it would've been great. It would've been

I would've eaten that up.

No offense to Tommy Lee Jones, but like, that's the world I wish we kind of lived in

Same. I, I wish, I wish yes. And to what you said, an interesting Ridler trophy. There is a Batman 89 comic book series

That's right. Oh yeah.

That came out pretty recently. Right?

yeah. It came out pretty recently. It It follows the continuity of Batman returns. So you have the Billy Williams version of Two-Face.

You have Catwoman coming back, the Michelle Pfeiffer version. You have Barbara Gordon working for the police for it. It's a very interesting

oh my gosh.

I

kinda, I kind of want to go Check. that out.

I think the thing is Tim Burton brought.

so.

much depth and pathos and understanding to the villains in the first two movies that I think we would've [00:11:00] gotten a very different two face had he handled it versus, you know, Joel Schumacher kind of reverting more back to the Adam West camp,

And I think that's

why this is such a good.

adaptation because it really gets into what I think that movie could have looked like.

Well,

Let's, let's just

we've already been talking about it. Let's just jump right into talking about the episode. Then

I'm gonna quickly set the stage

for this two-parter on two face, and then we'll just go straight into the plot and the moments that we saw. We have two face part one coming

at.

us. It was released on September 25th, 1992, directed by Kevin Al Terry, story written by Alan Burnett, and it was also written by Randy Rogel. And the plot of this episode, if we have it, made it explicitly clear. By now that it depicts the transformation of District Attorney Harvey Dent into the titular villain Two-Face. This story is concluded in the next episode that we're gonna be talking about Two-Face, part two, and I'm gonna jump in quickly with two Riddler trophies here, couple little [00:12:00] Easter eggs hidden in just the placement of this episode. This is of course, the first two partner that happens in Batman, the animated series covering two Face, and it's the first episode in double Digits because this is the 10th episode of Batman, the animated series that we're covering.

So

we're gonna just jump right into the episode where we're setting the scene

of

Batman,

taking down,

What was

honestly,

almost a diehard moment

with

the

villains intercepting a military shipment and breaking out the bazooka to fire down on unsuspecting

Jim Gordon and District

Attorney

Harvey.

Dent And Batman comes in, and kind of

unbeknownst to them, they're all kind of standing around like nothing's going on not realizing that

Batman literally just saved them

from the explosion.

of a bazooka.

But Charlie, I want you to talk about

There's a little bit of a difference in how, at least the, the outright police

reaction.

to Batman coming in and doing his thing is, can you

Talk about that a little bit?

little bit. This is the first time that we see Gordon and it's [00:13:00] a, it, it's a tip of the hat to what their relationship will ultimately become. But this is the first time that Gordon sees Batman's silhouette on the rooftop after Batman averts a disaster.

And he, he smiles a little bit. He smiles, and he, at this point, I believe that the creative team was just building the foundation for Gordon, seeing Batman as his greatest ally because in the DC animated universe, as we call it for this show, connecting Superman and JLU, Batman and Gordon become best friends in a way.

And we're seeing that. it feels a little like. Sentimental to say this, but there is a bit of a love story and a falling out between them that we'll see play out over the course of the entire series. So I like that little seed being planted here.

Yeah,

for sure. I loved his line, Looks like they've

got a, a case of a bad infestation,

just kind

of knowing [00:14:00] what's going on.

'cause No one else seemed to understand right away and

Gordon was

like, oh,

yeah, I

see what's happening.

here. But

we're gonna fast forward straight into kind of,

the main point of this raid.

And, and

that's to

show that they're really

painting this

other side of,

Harvey Dent in his anger. So they're, they're hauling the criminals out in cuffs and one of the lackeys starts talking shit and kicks mud all over Harvey Dead's suit. And

he,

I mean like the screen literally turns red, like this guy literally switches

and sees red and I know that You wanna talk about that, Charlie?

because you think that's just such a good setup moment.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that it was very. Clever on the part of the animation team to whenever Harvey's mood changes, the background will either turn red or will just turn pitch black.

Because what we're doing, we're entering Harvey's mindset because he is the hero of the story, which is what Batman the animated series [00:15:00] did so well. Every episode, the villain is the protagonist in their own way, and Batman is the secondary character reacting to a problem. You'll see that there's very few episodes of these series where Batman is starting the story.

It's always Batman reacting to what a villain is going through, but in this case, he's reacting to what one of his best friends is going through. So by getting into Harvey's mind more than we've gotten into any of the other criminal's minds, we are harboring. Really warm feelings and empathy for this guy in a way that Bruces in a way that I found was very nuanced and quite frankly, just super lovely.

Joe, what did you think?

I think the episode does a really good job of putting us into an empathetic position for Harvey, which is,

I think what.

what

you

ultimately

want to feel,

not just because,

of you want a three-dimensional character, but

because

you

wanna [00:16:00] understand why Batman wants to help this guy. You know? If, if he was just bad, for bad sake and, and we didn't really understand

Know, the fall

and, and

some of

the responsibility that Batman that Bruce Wayne feels for, for having let him fall.

So

we get that moment of kind of set up and

we're

moving on

into

sort of

the celebration. They're at this campaign party to race funds for the DA race. It's

getting

pretty clear that he's the

real

front runner,

favorite, all of that stuff.

It reminded me a lot of the campaign DA stuff from the 1989 movie too, just kind of the look and style of that whole scene. The mis and sin of that scene was very much,

akin to,

That,

sequence in, in that first movie. and that's kind of when I first went like, oh, maybe this is supposed

to be,

like the extension of Billy D.

Williams,

you know

No, I love that. That's a great point. I was about to

make

fun of the fact that.

the show is still rooted in the early

[00:17:00] nineties and the fact that his fiance started crying tears of joy, when he said that he was gonna finally marry her was just like,

okay,

we're in this

moment in time.

But

I, you know, as you go through kind of the next steps of it, and we're gonna get into kind of like the, the fallout of another angry outburst, and stuff like that, you kind of realize that maybe the reason why he's not pulling the trigger is because he knows he has this side of him that he's trying to protect someone he loves from, but then we can kind of move on into the next steps of, he gets this phone call, the criminals got out.

Like

he

obviously knows that the judge is on the take. And he has just like another total like ballistic freak out. He pushes his aid over this huge ice statute comes

down and it's very clear that after Bruce and.

Grace snap him out of it, that like he has no idea where he is.

He doesn't know what just happened. Like this is very clearly,

and this

is something that, I guess this is a, another Riddler trophy that we're gonna uncover right here. Something

that

is used for the original conception of Two-Face back in the comics. The one of the original motivations for,

the creation of Two-Face was [00:18:00] this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde's sort of dichotomy between the two personalities that are fighting each other. In this case it's Harvey Dent and big bad Harv.

That was a very amusing thing to me in the episode. Because, because before they ever said it, I watched it with the subtitles on, I don't know if you watched it with the subtitles on, I watched it with the subtitles on, and it said, big Bad Harv before they even introduced the idea of Big Bad Harv. And I was like, I had forgotten that that was what it was. So my introduction was like, like seeing it on the subtitles. It was, it, it reads very silly but it works,

you know,

it reads. It reads very silly. It also reads like a Reddit handle, like, oh, like Harvey's definitely trolling people on Reddit as big, bad Harv and just saying all of the egregious shit he can't say in public,

I also wanna say like this next, this next little bit here that Steve, I think you're about to touch on, like for an animated kid show in the 1990s, I think it does a really good job of [00:19:00] normalizing therapy which I was very surprised about.

is something,

I wanted to touch on because they, they do,

It's funny, I, I've seen this meme before.

That's like someone in therapy being like, relying on

My friends makes me feel weak And the, and

then the

therapist is like

you know, who else relied on his friends

and then the, the guy starts crying. and he is like, aor son of

hor it slides tissue box, aor son of hor. So now I'm just gonna put Batman in that place.

Be like, Yeah. bat Batman thinks therapy is cool. Kids. So you

remember that?

If you ever think that therapy isn't cool, fucking Batman.

thinks therapy is cool.

mean, you know,

I've never, I always hear those people who are like, oh, you know, we need to normalize therapy, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I feel like my parents,

did a pretty good job of thanking me pretty open to just

about everything

But like, I've,

never thought therapy was like anything to be ashamed of or upset about.

And I do wonder if maybe like

this

show Inception

me to that idea,

Yeah, yeah.

Hey.

year old [00:20:00] Joe

Learning the therapy was okay.

because Batman said so.

Oh. Only because Batman said, so I wanna, I wanna point something out in this scene I really . I love how Nora, the therapist in this scene just moves Harvey into the space of letting big bad Harv.

There goes that name again and Big bad Harv come out again, because if we really were to look at what Harvey would probably be diagnosed with, he definitely has OCD because of the coin toss, like severe, severe OCD. And he also has DID disassociative identity disorder, which is what you have when you have multiple personalities.

So as a like psychology nerd, I looked up what they would help Harvey with in treatment. They would put him on anti-psychotic and [00:21:00] anti-anxiety meds. They would also have to go in and give him extensive therapy so that he can accept. The other personality that he's living with in his head. Then I dug deeper and I found out that there was actually a Batman graphic novel that addresses this.

It's called AUM Asylum. It's this graphic novel, and inside of it, Harvey Dent is kind of run through his paces psychologically. They get him off of his coin and they give him a deck of tarot cards as his way

of figuring out what decisions to make. But Harvey, because he has severe OCD and definitely a lot of underlying anxiety, he.

Can't make any decisions because , there's so many tarot cards to pick from, so many tarot cards to pick from, and Batman finds him underneath the table and he's pissed himself because he couldn't [00:22:00] make a decision on whether or not to go to the bathroom because there were so many options with the tarot card deck, which I found to be so interesting and so clever, and to show how crippling this coin is to him as a crutch.

That's, that's super fascinating. And like you, you think about this episode, it's, it's kind of a big idea for, a kid's show that like a politician would be so upset and ashamed about. This and, and wanting to hide it so that it doesn't prevent him from getting elected to public office like that.

That's kind of a big idea for a kid to grasp. But when you think when the way Charlie just laid all that out, the types of drugs they were on, the different types of neuroses, like

Yeah,

I could totally

understand why someone wouldn't want a politician with all those things going on, being elected in office,

you know we're struggling enough with former president presidents who are like mega

maniacs, you know, so like add [00:23:00] in multiple personalities and all, you know, OCD and all that other stuff.

Like who knows what we would've gotten right. But yeah, no, again, just like really kind of heavy stuff for, you know, what's, what's ultimately like a quote unquote kid show. But yeah, no, I think again, all of this is just like, it's just, it goes into Harvey Damp being one of the more Fascinating Batman characters.

I totally

agree With that.

and I want to stick on this psychiatrist session for, for just another moment to talk specifically about kind of the, the shades of Two-Face that we get there. I think the, the animation, Charlie, you said in the facial expressions are really cooking in this episode. I think in this scene right here, I was watching this for the first time, kind of later at night. And so that lightning flash with the preview of what his face was gonna become kind of made me go like, oh, holy shit. That was really awesome like that. And I think that was

the first moment

in the watching this series that like actually surprised me,

like

caught me off guard and was like kind of caught me off, like knocked [00:24:00] me off balance a little bit in a way. to like

it

was the first time I felt uneasy

watching A villain kind of come out of his shell, which we haven't experienced yet. I think we've gotten good villains. We've gotten funny villains. We've gotten straight up bad villains that

we don't understand

why they exist. This one was like, okay, this guy is scary. And the even the psychiatrist was freaked out by what

was going on and, but I think you have a point there with the

I

mean the two options that

she lays out for him. Kind of

coming off.

of The scene is you either have to

go

commit yourself, which again, early nineties, I don't think there were many options other than go commit yourself or like go, I guess we could try going really heavy on the therapy

if you are really

invested

in

keeping this a

secret and keeping your career together.

'cause yeah, if you're, if it gets announced that you're going into a psych

ward, you're

not gonna get trusted to be the district attorney of one of the most crime ridden cities in the entire country. But let's move on because district Attorney Harvey Dent is

happening. [00:25:00] My guy's getting elected. It's a landslide.

He's like, I'm proposing tonight, or we're setting a date for our wedding tonight, which again, is just so fucking weird, but I, I guess that's just gender roles in 92. And he, he gets a, a call on the phone and we haven't talked about Thorn yet. And I know that Charlie,

you

kind of

we're a little

meh on the use of Thorn here.

I don't have a ton of context.

for who he is in the bar, larger Batman universe.

So

the only option I could come up with was like, would it have been better

if you threw Carmine in here because he's a more,

well-known gangster in the, in the, or like Falcon

or something like that. Someone like that. Or

you me, you mentioned

throwing the Joker into it, which we've already established that Joe thinks that that version of the Dark Knight Two faces shit. So

on, hang on. Time out. Time out.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

I, okay. So couple things, right? First

I find the gangsters [00:26:00] in the Batman world to be a little interchangeable, kind of boring.

thank you.

Thank you. Yeah.

I agree. I thought.

the thorn part of this was the weakest part of this. The one thing that I do think the Dark Knight gets right is tying Joker into two phases, origin story, and Because here's the thing, all all the Batman villains have really, at least the over the top ones, have really cool, kind of hooks to them, right? And joker is obviously this agent of chaos, right? This uncontrollable agent of chaos. And Harvey is someone who believes in chance, in luck. And, and honestly like that whole kind of outlook, I could really get, kind of get behind and empathize with you know, 'cause I feel like every time I make a movie, it's like, you might as well flip a coin is whether or not it's gonna be a good experience or not. There's really, there's really no rhyme or reason as to why anything works or doesn't work in this world. And you know, I I, I love the whole coin flipping [00:27:00] thing.

I think it's great. Like, but I might be jumping ahead in the second episode, which take a step back. I do think the way Joker pushed. Harvey Dents in the Dark Night into Becoming Two Face is better than this instance where it's just interchangeable gangster. But it's the second half of this two-parter where I think Two-Face succeeds more so than it does in the dark night.

And, and my, 'cause my one big issue with the Dark Night, and it's always been my, my complaint ever since I first saw it, is they did a great job with the Joker

and

I felt like they.

completely undercut face because I just felt like they had to rush it in my perfect head, cannon the third Christopher Nolan Batman movie should have been Batman versus Two Face. It should not have just been like truncated into the second half. Of the third act [00:28:00] of not even the third act, the second half of the climax of, of, of the movie, you know I just felt like they didn't do justice to a character. They literally spent two hours getting us to invest in the tragedy of and I think this two-parter does a better job of getting that idea across.

I

agree with you

Actually,

we'll get into this a little bit more as we start covering the second episode, but the whole fact that there's a six month time jump in that Batman is clearly haunted by the fact that he couldn't save his friend and all that stuff, I think it does set up a lot more emotional stakes.

That's going into kind of the fall and the, I guess, capture of Two-Face

moving forward.

So

let's kind of,

Let's

keep cruising through this one and get to the actual creation of Two-Face and

and then we get to jump

into kind of how that all.

blooms into that next thing in that second episode.

So after it's clear, that Harvey's gonna.

win and take the district attorney office in a

Landslide, he gets a call.

from Thorn or we could just use [00:29:00] interchangeable generic gangster if we want to as well.

And

he

said that he's actually got his hands on.

his file that says that he has,

At the time they were calling

it multiple personalities disorder. I think they've since changed the vernacular to be

DID

But yeah,

so

Harvey

is taken to,

c Thorn in a car,

I think there's some cool parallels that in this moment that the second episode comes back to later with one of a couple moments that we'll touch on later. And

he's basically.

a willing captive of the gangsters as that he figure outs what they want and they want a favor from the district attorney, obviously.

And Batman shows up

to help him out big fight

ensues,

but before the big fight ensues, the fact that

Thorn is tormenting him so much

brings out

big bad Harv to play.

And

we kind of get a moment to see just how strong Harvey

Dent. AKA big bad Harv

is. Charlie, I know you wanted to talk

about this because he literally throws

Thorn [00:30:00] like a fucking

ragdoll

across,

the room.

he, he literally, he threw Thorn so effortlessly and at that point I kind of gave a head tilt, like really big bad Harv.

Really, I think, and this is one of my big issues with this two-parter, is I love how Batman. Jumps in because he's trying to save his friend rather than he's trying to stop a villain. I thought that that was a great novelty for not only the Bat Mintos, but also the series to show how invested Batman is.

But the Trade-off of having Harvey Dent be so strong and Batman just getting knocked out so easily was kinda what I, I don't get unless the animators were pulling on a really harmful stereotype that people have crazy person strength and that Harv was just pulling from this [00:31:00] well, of just whatever it is that he's struggling with, to throw goons, like ragdolls.

It just, it really bumped me and it, it made me roll my eyes so hard.

You

know it's funny, we've been having

this discussion on a project I'm working on where we have this kind of like frail old woman who. Like gets this like burst of strength. And I really do believe, in the whole adrenaline can, can give you

excessive strength,

You know?

I mean, anyone who's ever

tried to you know, with an old man knows that they get like crazy dad strength from somewhere, you know, like right? So, so,

I'm, I'm the, I, I, you know, and also it's a cartoon,

but, but yeah, he big bad heart fucked up all of the generic mobsters. So yeah, that was, that was pretty crazy. I, I took note of that too. But I, I think I'm still in the corner of like, when

Someone

is, you know, when

[00:32:00] someone

snaps,

they really do find amazing feats of strength.

I'd also like to point out that the way that the Harvey

D is animated,

he looks

like he's built

like

an inside linebacker I'm pretty, sure he's taller and wider than Bruce Wayne. Like he's not a small guy. Like he's no offense to, to Aaron Eckert, but he's no Aaron Eckert like that.

He's, he's stacked. So if you add that on top of not crazy person's strength, but blacked out rage strength, then maybe we have a we we're also like the,

the, the, this episode I, I'm gonna reference Chekhov's coins in the next episode,

but this one kind of has chekhov's fist a

couple times where like he rears back to punch and.

he gets stopped a Couple times. I think you need those moments of showing how strong he is

so then when he gives Batman a rib shot you understand why

it is affecting him for the rest.

of the episode. I think There's also a little bit of that that

they were trying

to do, so you

don't just go

[00:33:00] wait, okay, so he can one

punch Batman,

and like basically like take,

out three of his ribs.

I wanna add a point. I wanna be generous and say that in my head, cannon Batman is thrown off his game because of how invested he is in the friendship with Harvey.

I think that this isn't a case where Batman had 24 hours of prep time and knew exactly what he was dealing with. This is Batman in an emergency with a friend. This is kind of akin to. Having an intervention with a friend and having no prep about how you're gonna frame the conversation. I think that that's why Bruce was a little bit not as polished as we're used to seeing him in this fight and in the next part of this two parter.

That's, that's me cutting him slack. And that's also how I can wrap my head around Batman not being as ferocious of a fighter as we're used to.[00:34:00]

Moving through the fight, which

honestly like, I wanna give the animation team more credit here. Like this fight was

a sort of like chaotic

that I really enjoyed. It really felt like lots of bodies were flying around,

the room and Batman was trying to stop Harvey, but also help Harvey and all of that stuff.

And it all kind of devolves into Thorn running,

off with the, the file of Harvey's stuff and

Harvey running off after

him. And then the goon fires after

him with a

Tommy gun hits an electrical

box very conveniently placed in the middle of a bunch of chemical vets.

Big

explosion. And

this

was like, oh man, I felt

so

bad for Batman. I mean, I guess I felt bad.

for Harvey too, but that moment where he flips Harvey over and he sees his face and he just goes, oh no.

Like just that moment of like, oh man, this is like,

there's no, like,

it's

just straight remorse. Like this is a bad thing. And the bad thing is that

the chemicals basically blasted half of

his [00:35:00] body

away.

He is now blue

and disfigured and awakens and demands a mirror.

although I gotta say I. if you're a doctor, performing like reconstructive surgeries and you're a nurse working in an emergency room, maybe have

a

little bit more decorum than drop, like

is it that bad that you have to drop the tray of all the stuff on the ground and the doctor be like,

who? like that's, I mean, I understand that you're supposed to set up the moment of him being like, I'm a monster,

or whatever. But like, come on docs. let's, let's like get

it together

a little bit.

but.

No, that scene

was also one

of the scenes that bumped me too. 'cause it was a little

similar,

to

the

joker.

in 89 with, with his plastic version even

Down,

to like, gimme the mirror and

like

that whole thing. It was very

let's,

let's we'll be generous.

And, and use a George Lucas ism and say that they rhymed those moments.

Rhymed

I thought you were gonna use a different George

Lucas, [00:36:00] which was, they hated it. But you actually, Joe, you just found a

Ridler Trophy, right? there. That

moment in 89 is actually

referenced as a motivation

for?

that scene. So they, they did take, they did rhyme indeed on purpose.

Yes, indeed.

Well, and

honestly, it's

Kind of smart because if you're trying to

endear a bunch of kids who are wearing out the

VHS tape of their Batman 89 and know it by heart in a weird way.

you're tapping into their subconscious of something they already like so

So

and, and

are already familiar.

with and, and can fill in some holes with.

So it's actually pretty clever.

It is that,

and telling them that therapy is cool.

cool. Mm-Hmm. therapy

is cool.

So to close out the episode, grace comes in, sees her fiance with his

disfigured face,

she passes out that one a little bit more understanding.

That's a very shocking moment for someone that you love who's gone through a traumatic thing

and

Harvey takes that to heart and [00:37:00] goes Goodbye.

And

he's out into the night.

And that is how

the episode.

concludes to be continued in part two.

So before we move on, to our battering ratings and.

our part two of this episode. Are there any final thoughts about

two phase, part one that we wanna cover that we haven't yet?

yet? A very quick nod I want to give is Kevin Conroy's performance in this episode. I don't know if you realize before Bruce changed into the Batman suit, as Harvey was running off to have that meeting with Thorn, he slips into his Batman voice as Bruce and says, are you in trouble?

And I thought that that was such a nice subtle touch that the animators probably didn't expect, but Conroy probably slipped in. Then later when Batman is in the whole tussle, he slips into his Bruce voice when he says, Harvey, no, you know, I think. Just showing how personal I, it really got my heart. That line reading got [00:38:00] my fucking heart.

Just what a great performance. I miss Conroy so damn much. Just him slipping in and out of his Batman and Bruce voice shows how different this conflict is. It was a really great use of that dichotomy.

I

also wanna give

an another

voice,

not to Richard Mole, who was the voice of Harvey Dent

and also did the voice of, of Big Bat Harvey and like he's all the voices of Two-Face. And so I think those, those switches were really, really brilliant.

his, his big, bad two face voice. I, I love, I think it's so powerful.

Agree. The character work on two face is just absolutely top-notch. So let, let's give our

our battering

ratings

for

two, face part one. Now Joe, we're gonna give you the honor since you are the guest of honor. So what would you like to give your battering rating of two

face part?

one. And you can use haves these if you'd like to.

All right. I think I'm gonna go with four out of five batter ranks. And, and for simply because

and, and we [00:39:00] talked about

this.

like the one real flaw in the episode for me I just think Thorn is not the most compelling of kind of secondary villains who's pushing this along. But aside from that, I think as far as the storytelling goes it sets up the fall of Harvey Dent really, really nicely and in 20 minutes. So,

you know,

Know

it's, it's impressive, truly.

Charlie, what about you?

you? I am alright. I was tempted to give it four outta five better rings, but then I looked at what's coming in this series and I definitely have other two phase episodes that I like more than this one. So I'm not gonna give it a three. I'm gonna give it a three and a half. And my reason is because I think it's close to being great, but a lot of the Thorn stuff really bumped me because he's a one dimensional villain.

All of everything about this episode works. But Thorn and his lackeys and that [00:40:00] pulled me out of the episode whenever they were plotting and scheming.

Very cool.

I'm gonna

also give this one a four out of five

batter rings.

s.

I agree with everything. Everyone said This was my favorite episode of the series so far.

so it's getting my highest rating so far. It's as simple as that. So four

outta Five.

for Two-Face, part one, and we're gonna move right along into Two-Face, part two.

Released

on September 28th, 1992. Again, directed by Kevin

Al Terry, written by Randy

Rogel,

Reborn as Two-Face Harvey Dent in his crime gang. Go

on

a vengeful ran page against.

Rupert Thorn's empire of sin.

Meanwhile, dense best friend.

their Best friends, Bruce Wayne tries to find a way to unlock Harvey's human side before he truly

goes over.

the brink of madness.

Now, I, I just wanna quickly

like,

go into the setup of all of this.

I love the fact that they went six months later, we get a dream sequence.

with Bruce having the nightmare this time,

instead of Harvey having,

the nightmare about his alter ego.

I

just think that they do a great job of kind of like [00:41:00] resetting up where everything is and the fact that this

is something that's still like

very much,

so bothering Batman

and it's like,

very much so the center of his focus even a half a year later, which is a ridiculous amount of time to let a villain like Two-Face run around and cause havoc

I'm curious 'cause I have not watched the episodes that preceded this. Did the show do a good job of establishing them as best friends? Or was that kind of a loose thing that they kind of just

Pretty poison, probably is the closest

pretty poison.

Where Bruce saw Pamela Isley, who's later revealed to be poison ivy, plant this big kiss on Harvey and knock him out near death. And that was the motivation for that episode, Bruce trying to save his friend. We saw Harvey Dent another time before that in on leather wings, but he didn't interact with Bruce.

So

I actually wanna quickly talk about that because this is a, like a Ridler trophy.

I

just, from my memory of that [00:42:00] episode, he's fucking around with his coin in that scene

he

on leather wings.

is.

So like,

does that

mean That was a big bad Harv sighting in that? Like I, I haven't gone back and watched it yet, but now I wanna go back and watch it after watching this

episode. being like, he doesn't mess with that coin unless he's in his big bag Harv bag or his two face bag.

So like

in

that moment of us beating Harvey Dent for the first time, is he actually it may maybe the.

writers didn't know and they accidentally did that, not knowing that they were gonna ride it like this, but I feel like maybe that was a little Easter egg that they were giving us

It might have also been just, you know, I, I have some friends who are are doing what you guys are doing with Batman. They did with X-Men. Their show is called Cyclops is waiting for me. But I'm glad you both get the reference. One of the things that they were finding when they were doing their research on the animation versus the writing is a lot of times the animators wouldn't necessarily get like all the [00:43:00] cues from the writing.

And so like, they might've just been like, you know, they might've seen in the script like Harvey Dent, Two-Face, and they're like, oh, well Two-Face should have a coin. And then by the time the animation comes back, it's like. Well, there's no money to change it, so continuity is out the window, you know?

30 years later us, us adults now are picking apart their, their, you know, 20 episode animated run on a low budget show. So,

They, they obviously weren't anticipating the phenomenon of podcasts coming 30 years later, so Definitely that. Well, let's, let's get right into the establishment of Two-Face that we get right here at the beginning. Him and his henchman, min and max are sitting outside of, first of all, calling your twin henchman.

Min and max is absolutely a plus, but we get the moment of the coin flip. Good heads. We leave them alone. Bad heads, we go in and fuck shit up. I just like a quick moment to recognize that the bad head side literally just has three [00:44:00] scratches on it. which is kind of funny. Like of all of the good animation. I just thought that was like a, okay, let's put three lines on it and that's gonna show that it's. The bad side, but they get the bad side. They go into this bookie horse racing betting joint that's clearly like an illegal betting ring that Thorn is running. They steal a bunch of money, they get the a forward mentioned checkoffs coins, silver dollars. I got one more silver dollar. And we, we shoot up the place and we get out of there and thorn is pissed. He's absolutely pissed. And he's like $2 million, 1 million for each of his two faces. So we're, we kind of get into the, the hunt for two face.

And we also know that Batman is still kind of trying to figure out where two face is. He woke up from that nightmare with just like, kind of in Charlie vibes, just with books of psychology and multiple personality. Disor. Now DID kind of strewn across his bat console. And we kind of are kind of set up for the collision that's, that's coming at us.

Do you guys [00:45:00] have anything to say about the, that kind of setup into part two?

I have two really quick points. My first point is that when Harv breaks into one of thorn's, hideouts, or one of his coverups for his criminal activities, there's this one shot that goes from the typical animation that just goes to a pure painting of just . Two faces, eyes moving from left to right as he scans the document that I thought was So Chef's Kiss.

The Animation team does that every once in a while. It'll just cut from the animation to a painting with a little movement, and I think that a little Flourish of Style does so much to put Batman, the animated series over so many things that were airing at the time, including X-Men, the Animated series, which is another goat of comic book animated series.

I thought that that was such a nice [00:46:00] stylistic touch. Also, my thing with Bruce waking up from that nightmare with all of the books, I love this version of Bruce. He's my baby. He's my bat baby. But dude, six months, you couldn't catch two face in six months. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I call shenanigans just

It. That's a, that's extensive for Batman. That is really extensive. Especially he's not able to figure out the pattern that Harv was hitting all of these covers for thorn's, criminal activities. He couldn't have busted him that. I think that was a little too generous if we would've knocked it to like almost three months.

And Alfred is pointing out, Hey, you're kind of taking a little while longer than usual to find this guy. And we would've spoken about it. I think that would've added a nice layer to how hard this is for Bruce, but for it to just [00:47:00] be boom, six months later that that kind of made me raise a brow

I actually with Charlie about that. I, so truth be told, I must have missed the six months later because I did not that six months. So to me it perfectly reasonable time.

You know what

I am making up the six months later from the synopsis of the episode, so it's not shown to us. It's basically like you'd have to have read what the like listed synopsis of the episodes, so you didn't technically miss

anything

you.

Yeah. So to me it felt like some time had gone by. I didn't. I agree. Six months feels

just enough.

Yeah. So I guess maybe that's for me, that's why I didn't, I didn't bump on that. But that makes me feel a little bit better that my viewing habits haven't completely eroded and, and I'm missing key bits of information. But I think Charlie's right, like if you had actually put a [00:48:00] little, and there was that scene with Alfred that they could have done it in, like to put a just a little bit more sauce on there, I think, I think that would've been, I think that would've worked really well. So but I just wanna touch on before we, because you kind of briefly mentioned them. I love that two faces, henchman are twins. I just think that's so funny.

Oh, I didn't even think about that. That is really

Was that I am,

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's just two-faced twins. Anyway it's, it's good stuff. It's good's. Good, good. Little, little I, I'm a sucker for a good pun. So you know, two-faced, being obsessed with twos and, and literally shaping his entire criminal syndicate around that is, is very amusing to me.

Yeah. What, what actually, and this kind of brings us into the next point of the episode. What lucky coincidence that every single one of Rupert Thorn's, fronts and laundering places that he hits have some sort of reference to a two in them. So So that just is one of lucky coincidence [00:49:00] for our guy Two face, 'cause Batman's, like, they all have two references. Oh. And they're also belonging to Thorne. So there we go. We finally figured it out six months later.

has so many businesses. That's the only way that makes sense,

right.

is he's got so many businesses and these are just a couple of them. But,

Just a, just enough of a percentage. Well, then we find that's actually not true

You know, you know, you know what the percentage is, Steve?

what's that 2% of his businesses

exactly

That's good.

his businesses.

Well, Batman goes into deuces. Well, he's actually taken out all of the businesses, so

you know what type of milk? Harvey Dent drinks

Half and half.

2%.

Half and half. Oh

yeah.

Oh, oh, that's, that's,

a little ruler trophy for you that I just made up.

Yeah.

that. That's so

So good. I love how we're milking this.

Well, Batman milks this little trail. See what I did there to figure out [00:50:00] where two faces going next and two faces but he figures out that two faces is going to try and an act revenge on Thorn in the same way that Thorn was blackmailing him in the first episode by going and stealing his files that list out all of his money laundering and all of his illicit, illegal activities. I guess we should rewind into this first because we haven't talked about grace at all in all of this, and maybe because I don't know how we feel about all of this, but after the, the bounty gets put on two faces, head Candace, the, the Lady Lackey of of Thorn goes to grace because

Candace had some amazing music cues. They were, they were quite over the top, and

I was, I was gonna say she had some amazing something else, but yes. Music cues for sure. And yeah, the, the animators were definitely showing their cards about how they felt about Candace throughout these episodes. Most definitely. But she

kind of tricks grace into thinking that she's an undercover cop and gives her this, this beacon.

We're back at the office and Batman has figured out where

[00:51:00] Two-Face is coming. So he comes in and tries to stop him. But he also.

gets

distracted by

the fact that Min and Max come in to try and help stop Batman from getting Two-Face captured and Two-Face lands one of these punches on him finally.

And basically like as, like I said, I'm assuming that he's got a couple of broken ribs here. There's no way that you take a punch and have it knock you out and not like,

have it

affect you for the rest of the episode and not have a few broken bones that you're dealing with for the rest of the time.

But two face gets away

and

two faces feeling like

he wants the company of his lady, once again, he sees a billboard

for wedding

bells and wedding dresses and he thinks of Grace and

he

gives grace a call. And, of, in a very similar

parallel

to when Thorn called him up and had the car set, and got him taken away to where Thorn was, he sends The car gets Grace picked up.

but Grace

also grabs this Beacon. And we are on for that collision course

of all of our

bad guys, once again

Storytelling rhymes.

I have a[00:52:00]

question though about the coin.

flipping.

Yeah, go ahead.

When it comes,

to, when it comes to

grace. I'm trying

to remember,

He flips the coin

to decide whether or not

he wants to see,

it or not. Right.

But I feel like, like, the head that it landed on confused me logically. Like it didn't,

I don't know

Did, did that bump anybody

You talking about the first time when he decides not to see her?

Yes.

Yeah.

because It comes up, it comes up clean. Right.

Right.

And

so I guess he's thinking that the good decision is to let her be because he's a monster now.

Oh,

makes sense, right.

okay. Yes. And to that, I would say that more than the right decision, maybe the clean side represents order.

and the second side represents chaos. So if he's thinking as Harv, he knows that he's too far gone to really give her the kind of life that she deserves. [00:53:00] So that was a bit of him deciding, am I gonna think like Harv or am I gonna think like two-faced? Am I gonna be chaotic or am I gonna be all about justice in order?

So yeah, that, that's my head canon for that

it might be, that might be the heaviest heads or tails coin flip of all time.

Okay. Coin flipping. The coin flipping. I love it. No, that's a good note.

I like it.

a good job. Noted. It's wonderful.

So speaking of of Harvey thinking that he's too far gone for grace, we do have, I like to call it a beautiful moment where he could, where she convinces him that

he,

she loves him no matter what,

but

at the same time, she also thinks that she's calling the cops on him because I guess she just wanted to help him.

But

there is this like very beautiful, like I do think it's genuine that she like doesn't care what he looks like, that she wants to pull the cloth off of his face, that she still loves him no matter what. And I think it is nice that

Harvey

gets this[00:54:00]

after

having Poison Ivy Pam be like a very nefarious target of his affection. So it is nice that they seem to have gotten him someone that genuinely seems to love Harvey Dent for everything that he is. and even though this terrible thing has happened to him, she can still find that space for him. Best intentions aside, it's Thorn and Candace and all of the bad guys that show up

and go, haha, trick to you.

fool.

Do. That's a little space ball's

reference. And so we have a, another

fight

that ensues. There's more guns. There's falling

chandeliers, there's

grace taking her revenge on Candace

and absolutely whacking the

shit

outta her to take her out. And

Two-Face basically has the drop on everybody because again, we're

E established that he has,

super Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde Villa in strength,

and he's about to get into his coin flipping to figure out

what to do with Thorn and check off silver dollars. Batman grabs the box of silver dollars next to

him and kind of [00:55:00] a last resort moment,

and with his broken rib strength, throws the coins into the air, causes his bad coin to get lost in the shuffle of all of this, and this basically causes a psychotic meltdown from Harvey.

Thorn is arrested, Harvey is taken away and.

Grace embraces him

One last time before.

Batman says to Jim Gordon that where there is love, there is hope. And we have the conclusion of our part two, of our two part

two face episode. Guys, do you wanna talk about a little bit about how sort of the, the conclusion

of, of this two face, two parter hit y'all?

Yeah. I think Batman forever paid homage to this with how the Tommy Lee Jones version of Two-Face was defeated with Bruce Stern coins, but also that movie, the way it ended Two-Face Life in that movie bumped me because did Val Kilmer Batman murder Two-Face by throwing all those coins [00:56:00] and because

Well, no, no, no, I don't think

so threw

sos and then, you know, bat and then Two-Face kind of himself, right?

Yeah. Not, no. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's . Yeah. Just like

The, I think

Also in continuity that Batman is also probably one

of the more murdery,

Batman's

I mean you think about

Batman

returns when he hands the guy the bomb knowing he's gonna blow up.

I know. Love

outrightly kill people, but he definitely puts people in

Situations where they're going.

to die.

Mm-Hmm. ,

we've had that conversation a couple times already in this series where we've had moments of being like, those guys are dead. Those guys are either dead or like absolutely never moving from the neck down ever again. So, you know,

what? Batman, it comes with the

territory.

I think it was absolutely an homage. And

I had forgotten that

this

inspired that. you know 'cause I feel like they all just merged into like.

like

one moment in my [00:57:00] memory. So

no, it's,

it's it's such a clever way.

to beat Two-Face.

It's so

smart,

it's so

gratifying.

I was a

little

confused, but I guess it's the broken ribs as to why

Batman

struggles picking up a box

of coins so much.

so much

But yeah, other than that, I was like, that, that was a really cool way.

to, Again, just

the, the, the episode does a really good job of

showing

what

makes,

Two-Face unique. You know,

with his kind of

Let's

rob this place because,

the coin said so let's not

take this jewelry because the coin

says,

not to.

It just sets him up with such a unique villain.

I love, his

existential look on life where,

everything's just random and

oh, yes, that was a beautiful monologue That was so well written. Thank you for bringing that up.

It's, again, it's heady stuff.

But, But,

Sorry, did that go over your head.

Oh. Ooh.[00:58:00]

A

it, was it too heady? Too heady anyway too

Joe.

Joe, you fit in perfectly with us 'cause we love puns too.

was good. That was really good.

Yeah, no,

So

I just thought it was, I thought it was really fun to see something that complex and something that existential written into a kid's cartoon.

So,

you know, it was that moment alone I thought,

made the, the episode

kind of stand

even above.

the previous one a little bit.

So there's a lot of really good stuff. Plus also, again, like we said,

I. The voice

actor's performance

is Two-Face is just great. And the look and the

design,

is, is excellent. A really defining kind of creation

of a new villain. Added, added, just the, the context of this two-parter.

I think the only thing I wanna add before we move on to our final battering ratings for part two one is my final Riddler trophy is that the, the creators are.

accredited with saying that these episodes are the ones that they feel like kind of turned a corner and making Batman, the animated series [00:59:00] one that could appeal to

Adults

just as

much as it

appeals to kids. And I think that was very apparent through a lot of the stuff that we said here today. And finally, I just want to, something that I noticed as like a recurring theme throughout this, and maybe that's just me making it up. I feel like they only showed profiles of the Harvey side.

I. rather than

the two face side, the

blue side.

And Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but I, I'm actually,

I'm, I'm,

looking at my page of notes and there's a photo on it of that moment where grace holds Harvey's head up to hers there at the end. And it's just his human side, not his human side face 'cause they're both technically human sides, but it's his not chemically altered side face.

And

you have a couple of those moments where I think the show is, and then this is my head, Ken and of course trying to make a point of being like, yes, this is a bad person, where bad things have happened to him and

there, is a monster there, but there's also still this human that's fighting

and clawing his,

way out at different moments.

And I think

that little

visual

cue of him.

turning to the side and you only getting his human [01:00:00] profile was, or I keep

saying Human

profile, like he turned into an alien. But you,

I think you understand what I mean, was just

a, a,

really cool visual cue that we saw a couple of times.

throughout this two-parter.

Let's Take it home, everybody. Let's give two phase part two,

our battering. ratings And let's go ahead and move on. So since I, I went last, I'm gonna be an only

child and go first this time.

And

I'm gonna, like Joe said a little bit earlier,

I think this is a little bit elevated over the first episode.

So I'm,

I'm not quite,

at that five level yet.

I think that's.

gotta be safe for a very special occasion. But I am gonna give this one,

Four and a half.

batter rings.

Charlie, what about you?

you? I'm gonna be stubborn as the oldest child and I am gonna say three and a half . It's great. I'm so tempted to give it four but I just, I know what else is coming and there's so much great Harvey stuff in the future. So much great Harvey stuff

I did not look ahead and I don't remember what's coming. So based [01:01:00] on the strength of this alone, I think I'm also with Steve. I'm gonna say

four and

a half batter rings.

You know,

it's just, it's, it's a great character introduction,

It's a really

satisfying

kind of conclusion to

Batman.

Catching two face. It's what I would've liked to see in its own movie during the dark night, but we didn't get that. But I guess I

will always have,

the Batman, the animated series two face, part one and part two.

We will always have

part

one and part two, and we'll always have this podcast where we got to acknowledge that. Joe, thank you so much for joining us as the first guest to ever appear on Charlie and Steve Tuff. Would you just take a moment to tell

all

of the dozens of our listeners where they can find you,

where on the internet?

your stuff lives, any projects that you have going on that you wanna plug that are maybe coming out in 2024. Tell, tell us about where we can find your stuff and we'll make sure we put it in the show notes too.

Yeah, [01:02:00] I've so you can find me on the interwebs on Twitter 'cause I refuse to call it by its other name.

You can find me on Twitter at Joe Russo tweets. And you can find me on Instagram at Joe Russo Graham. thIngs coming up. Just had a movie that came out in the theater. In October, 2023 called Soulmates.

That will be on VOD by the time

this Episode.

drops.

So check it out

It's kind of a cool online dating meets saw horror movie. And and then later this year.

Should have

a haunted house project coming out. Still waiting on all the, the details on that. It's currently been Retitled the Inheritance.

I don't know if that's the final title, but keep an eye out for that too.

Anything else you wanna say about Joe before he gets outta here?

Well, Joe's movie's amazing. I read the script, I've seen different versions of it as it's evolved in Bloom. So I'm, I couldn't be more excited for you, man. [01:03:00] Well deserved, and I can't wait for people to see it.

Yeah. Congratulations. That's awesome.

I,

am

Charlie and I have talked about,

this many times.

I

am a absolute

wimp when it comes to horror films,

but I will put

on my Brave Boy Pants and I'll watch your horror movie. I will do that and maybe we'll come back and talk about it on the podcast on a later date.

Well

that's gonna do it.

for this Episode of Charlie,

and Steve Watch stuff. I want to thank Joe one more time for coming out and joining us. We covered Two-Face, part one and part two. And next time we're gonna be coming back with the Batman Animated series, covering the episodes.

It's never too late,

and I've got

Batman

in

my basement for myself, Steve and my good friend Charlie Peppers. We'll see you on the next one.